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TTC: Other Items (catch all)

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The accountants don't want platform screen doors, because they would rather save money than lives.
That is simply not true. Platform doors ARE useful (for lots of reasons) but to install them on existing stations is VERY expensive and there are other (higher) priorities such as the 'regular' State of Good Repair and actually running enough trains/buses/streetcars (and managing them properly!) If you would move platform doors up the priorities, what would you move down to accommodate them? (Yes, if there was more money that would obviously help the TTC achieve more priorities but .....)
 

W. K. Lis

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If we use "pretty" platform screen doors, it may hide those stains. Just put the station name on the screen doors. As well as transit information, along with advertising space for the accountants.

Screen-System.jpg

From link.
 

JSF-1

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That is simply not true. Platform doors ARE useful (for lots of reasons) but to install them on existing stations is VERY expensive and there are other (higher) priorities such as the 'regular' State of Good Repair and actually running enough trains/buses/streetcars (and managing them properly!) If you would move platform doors up the priorities, what would you move down to accommodate them? (Yes, if there was more money that would obviously help the TTC achieve more priorities but .....)
I honestly think we are making this out to be harder than it needs to be. Retrofitting the current network with full height doors is an nonstarter due to the high cost of having to install complicated ventilation work down to platform level. On the other hand using half-height doors would fix this issue and eliminate what would be the biggest expense. It would still be expensive since platforms would still need to be reinforced to hold up the doors, but at least we wouldn't need to deal with airflow issues. Newer stations which were designed with full-height doors in mind would obviously still get them, while the old stations would get half-height doors.

1280px-Ginza_stn_Ginza_Line_-_new_platform_doors_-_Nov_28_2018.jpeg
 

H4F33Z

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It kinda irks me that Bloor-Yonge still has no plan for PSDs or PEDs

-Multiple incidents have happened
-Busiest station in the system
-ATC already running on Line 1 + eventually line 2
-Station reconstruction and improvements planned

But there is literally no sign of it happening which really annoys me because if at least one station could have PSDs, it should be Bloor-Yonge.
 

DSC

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I honestly think we are making this out to be harder than it needs to be. Retrofitting the current network with full height doors is an nonstarter due to the high cost of having to install complicated ventilation work down to platform level. On the other hand using half-height doors would fix this issue and eliminate what would be the biggest expense. It would still be expensive since platforms would still need to be reinforced to hold up the doors, but at least we wouldn't need to deal with airflow issues. Newer stations which were designed with full-height doors in mind would obviously still get them, while the old stations would get half-height doors.

View attachment 394134
You are certainly correct that half-height doors would be far cheaper to install and would work almost as well.
 

Jonny5

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Ugh. Now platform doors are a discussion item on the TV, and we have to endure yet another round of the very low quality coverage on this, complete with histrionic interviews from the "who cares how much it costs if it could save even a single life" windbag crowd.

"You can't put a price on life!" except you can, and we do, all the time, across all of society at all levels as a routine part of living in a complex world where there's countless risks and benefits to weigh and trade off, all partially dependent on others at any time.

[Insert screeching "WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" response here]

Time to turn the TV off for the day.
 
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Northern Light

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On the subject of Platform Edge Doors; While I agree that the media coverage at times can be overly-simplistic, I disagree on the value of the idea.

If you view the value as one of saving the proverbial innocent victim of a criminal shove, then yes, as tragic as such things are, they are also exceedingly rare, and the investment would be hard to justify.......

But when you extend it to suicides, the numbers are much more substantial.

1650456699195.png

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_Transit_Commission_incidents#2020–2029

The average appears to be in the low 20s with up to 33 attempts made in any given year.

That's not 'If it saves one life'.........

Granted, if that method of suicide is eliminated, many will find another, though some net reduction is likely.

***

But if one were remarkably cold, (not cruel); and set aside the impact of the suicide attempts on the persons involved, witnesses and operators.....

You're talking about ~25 service interruptions of 2+ hours every second week; that's a lot of inconvenience, and hassle and late-fees for parents picking up children from daycares, and people late for work or school or doctor's appts etc.

***

Beyond the suicide/homicide/idiot jumping down to get dropped phone on the tracks part of the discussion.........there is another issue......litter.

The leading cause of smoke/fire at track level is litter blowing onto the third rail. Excepting open-air sections of track, the vast majority of any litter is either discarded by people in stations, or blows in from relatively full garbage cans or such.

Full-height PEDs would either completely or mostly eliminate this source of delay for passengers.

I think the case for the investment is rather compelling.

****

On lines where ATC is in place, the logic would be to begin the work at stations where there are inordinate suicide attempts. Generally these are stations where trains enter at high speed and/or where the operator has a very poor sightline into the station until they are upon it.

In managing the non-suicide risk, one would presumably look to the most crowded stations.

In looking at Bloor-Yonge, one assumes ATC will be fully in place on both Line 1 and 2 at the conclusion of the project, as should be the case, the total cost of PEDs will be in the ~50-75M range for 5 barriers on 3 platforms.

That stands against a global budget for the project of 1.5B, meaning that even the high-side estimate represents 5% of project cost; that is well within the current contingency allowance.

It would seem wasteful to me not to include this work within the prescribed scope.
 

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I agree completely that NEW or rebuilt station could/should have PEDs once ATC is fully in effect (even if 'only' the half-height ones) but I can hear the complaints if we do Station A before Station B or do busy (downtown) stations before (less busy) suburban ones . I can see the placards now: "Scarborough Lives Matter too"!
 

Jonny5

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I agree completely that NEW or rebuilt station could/should have PEDs once ATC is fully in effect (even if 'only' the half-height ones) but I can hear the complaints if we do Station A before Station B or do busy (downtown) stations before (less busy) suburban ones . I can see the placards now: "Scarborough Lives Matter too"!
Hell, you could get the opposite if you put them in Scarborough first. "Why are we locked in subway station cages when downtown residents are left to be free?!"
 

Richard White

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Yesterday evening, I noticed an artic on the 17 Birchmount for the first time since the late 1990s.

Steve Munros website mentioned service improvements to the 17 Birchmount forthcoming. I presume they are putting artics on the route now?
 

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