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TTC: Other Items (catch all)

TTC service changes start Monday to accommodate King-Queen-Queensway-Roncesvalles construction

April 1, 2021

Starting on April 5, the intersection of King Street, Queen Street, The Queensway, and Roncesvalles Avenue (KQQR) will be partially closed with replacement TTC service being required on the 501 Queen and 504 A King routes. The reason for this partial closure is to accommodate important infrastructure upgrades being made by the TTC and the City of Toronto in the area.

The project includes streetcar track replacement, extension of the dedicated streetcar right-of-way from Claude Avenue east to KQQR, enhancements to streetcar stops and improved safety for pedestrians and cyclists. The City of Toronto is carrying out other work on lighting, water mains and sewers. Work in this area is expected to continue until summer of 2022.

In preparation for this project, buses have replaced 501 Queen streetcars between Long Branch Loop and Jarvis Street, and 504 King streetcars between Dundas West Station and Shaw Street. The following TTC changes will be in effect as of April 5:

- 501P/301P Queen buses will operate on Queen Street West between Park Lawn Loop in the west and the Queen/Jarvis area in the east, diverting both ways at the KQQR intersection via Queen Street West, Dufferin Street, King Street West and The Queensway.

- 501L/301L Queen buses will operate on Queen Street West between Long Branch Loop in the west and the Queen/Jarvis area in the east, diverting both ways at the KQQR intersection similar to 501P buses.

- 504G/304G King buses (north of Queen Street West) will operate on Roncesvalles Avenue between Dundas West Station and TTC's Roncesvalles Yard. No customer pick-up or drop off will be available inside the yard.

- 504Q/304Q King buses (south of Queen Street West) will operate via: west on King Street West, north on Dufferin Street, west on Queen Street West, south on Triller Avenue and return east on King Street West to Douro Street/King Street area. These King buses will serve Queen Street West between Dufferin Street and Triller Avenue, in the westbound direction only

Signs and additional route/stop markers will be posted to assist customers with the transition between bus services. In addition, customer service agents will be on site for a period of time to assist.

Work on this project will take place Monday to Friday, between 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. with additional hours as needed. There will be periods of 24-hour operations between April and June for TTC crews to complete the installation of new tracks.

For more information and updates on this project, visit https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ttc.ca%2FService_Advisories%2FConstruction%2FKQQR.jsp&data=04%7C01%7C%7C2340b5e2bdcb4ba59e4f08d8f524b0e1%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637528885217218880%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=CvITvi%2BkLfK5Hjrdri1a1WyNIdlVNowv6fzwmnU%2Bb4A%3D&reserved=0

The TTC is committed to keeping customers informed about work and events that impact service and about alternate routes. For the most up-to-date information, follow @TTCNotices on Twitter or sign up for eAlerts.
 
Reecemartin said:
Our latest video talks about how to transform and modernize the Toronto Streetcar (tram) network, so that we stop resting on our laurels and have a true world class network, including logical extensions and rolling stock improvements :

Click to expand...

From the non-transit using politicians...

sorry-i-cant-hear-you-i-have-fingers-in-my-ears.jpg

From link.
 
DSC said:
It certainly needs a couple more curves and to reinstate Adelaide from Victoria to Spadina but where else? It is not cheap laying track.
Click to expand...

Where one has King, Queen, Dundas and Carlton/College in fairly quick succession, I'm not of the view that more East-West diversion is all that useful.

The key is points at which those lines are connected so that the streetcar can use the next line up/down to divert.

In the west (of downtown) Bathurst and Spadina connect all the E-W runs.

But after that you don't have anything else that achieves that until Church St. then Parliament

McCaul and York provide provide partial connections.

In downtown, I think a case could be made for an additional Queen to King linkage btw York and Spadina. Duncan might be too close to McCaul; one could consider Peter or Simcoe.

In the west end, there's a connection at Shaw/Ossington; after that the only full connection is Roncy.

Extending a connection up Dufferin probably makes sense to fill that gap.

In the East end the connection gap is Broadview to Coxwell which is certainly too long.

Carlaw is probably the logical connection, assuming the large sewer underneath were not a problem. (weight/depth of track bed).

St Clair is a more curious beast in that it is completely isolated from the rest of the network.

Its sole connection track is Bathurst.

There is an argument for another connection track (to mitigate against Bathurst being closed); but there really isn't a value in diversion connections given the distance to the next line south.

****

All of the above said; I want to emphasize this is not a high priority in my mind relative to a myriad of other capital projects.

Just something that should be considered when road reconstructions come up every 50 or so years.

There is, however, a case for restoring some lost turning movements sooner.
 
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Towered said:
The TTC really needs more streets with diversion tracks...
Click to expand...

Northern Light said:
Where one has King, Queen, Dundas and Carlton/College in fairly quick succession, I'm not of the view that more East-West diversion is all that useful.

The key is points at which those lines are connected so that the streetcar can use the next line up/down to divert.

In the west (of downtown) Bathurst and Spadina connect all the E-W runs.

But after that you don't have anything else that achieves that until Church St. then Parliament

McCaul and York provide provide partial connections.

In downtown, I think a case could be made for an additional Queen to King linkage btw York and Spadina. Duncan might be too close to McCaul; one could consider Peter or Simcoe.

In the west end, there's a connection at Shaw/Ossington; after that the only full connection is Roncy.

Extending a connection up Dufferin probably makes sense to fill that gap.

In the East end the connection gap is Broadview to Coxwell which is certainly too long.

Carlaw is probably the logical connection, assuming the large sewer underneath were not a problem. (weight/depth of track bed).

St Clair is a more curious beast in that it is completely isolated from the rest of the network.

Its sole connection track is Bathurst.

There is an argument for another connection track (to mitigate against Bathurst being closed); but there really isn't a value in diversion connections given the distance to the next line south.

****

All of the above said; I want to emphasize this is not a high priority in my mind relative to a myriad of other capital projects.

Just something that should be considered when road reconstructions come up every 50 or so years.

There is, however, a case for restoring some lost turning movements sooner.
Click to expand...
The 512 ST. CLAIR should be extended via Jane Street or Scarlett Road, and Dundas Street West down to Dundas West Station (and the Roncesvalles carhouse). Though the Hillcrest facility maybe converted to a carhouse to store 512, 511, and maybe 510 streetcars.
 
About a decade ago the TTC looked at 'enhancements' including additional curves and track. Their list with (2009) costs is here: http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Com.../July_14_2010/Reports/Optimal_Turnarounds.pdf

The additional curve from Gerrard to Broadview was actually OKed by the Board but by the time that special trackwork was replaced (2019??) nobody at TTC remembered so it was not added!

The junction of Carlton & Church is up for replacement in 2022 (according to TOInView) - we will see if they remember this!
 
DSC said:
About a decade ago the TTC looked at 'enhancements' including additional curves and track. Their list with (2010) costs is here: http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Com.../July_14_2010/Reports/Optimal_Turnarounds.pdf

The additional curve from Gerrard to Broadview was actually OKed by the Board but by the time that special trackwork was replaced (2019??) nobody at TTC remembered so it was not added!

The junction of Carlton & Church is up for replacement in 2022 (according to TOInView) - we will see if they remember this!
Click to expand...

What I would like to see more of is Grand Unions. Switches are ok but we need more flexibility.
 
Reecemartin said:
Our latest video talks about how to transform and modernize the Toronto Streetcar (tram) network, so that we stop resting on our laurels and have a true world class network, including logical extensions and rolling stock improvements :

Click to expand...

I have an appreciation for Reece.

His enthusiasm for transit and interest in and knowledge of it is broad.

That said, I can't get behind a number of things in this video.

***

Let me start w/the positive, there is certainly a case to be made for double-ended cars, which to have any utility would need to have doors on both sides. That said, the additional doors would nix a lot of seats which would make many people unhappy; and I'm less persuaded by the argument for longer vehicles which would partially offset this.

I'm certainly happy to endorse better switches.

Expansion of the network is fine in general (his suggestion of Queen West to Park Lawn is already in the plans); Waterfront East and West extensions make eminent sense as well.

Some of the other ideas are, um, a tad quirky.

***

The notion of Island Platforms on Spadina would require wider platforms than those on the side today; the current side platforms are often dangerously crowded as it is, and an island would have to be able to handle loading/unloading of north and southbound vehicles at the same time.

That's fine, as far as it goes, but it would require removing car lanes on Spadina (not an easy sell); and total reconstruction of the track/ROW at intersections/stops. That's a lot of effort, money and disruption for something that doesn't, to my mind deliver much tangible gain.

The notion of running a streetcar up Main street from Kingston Road or Victoria Park is peculiar.

Victoria Park from Kingston to Gerrard is one lane each way, so the streetcar track would occupy the entire road, that would preclude an exclusive ROW and there's no other lines to interconnect with at that point.

Main is likewise narrow, there is a redundancy gain, but its quite small vs the capital outlay. Neither connection would facilitate removing an existing bus route.

Dupont is a suggestion for a new route; but the service it would replace is currently very low ridership. It gets only 3,800 boardings a day; that strikes me as something well short of justifying an LRT/Streetcar.

While Cosburn is nominally 13,000+ (still low for LRT); the truth is the bulk of its ridership is generated at the extreme east and west ends of the route.

Also, there's a need to serve a seniors home that's off Cosburn on a fairly steep grade. All that and Cosburn is already one lane each way, thus precluding any exclusive ROW (and lots of single family home driveways and those of large apartment buildings further restrain that possibility.

Portions of the route also operate on narrow, single-family home side streets. This would likely not go over well w/homeowners and would require eliminating parking.

But there are also some brutal (likely too small) turning radii on the route, in several spots. The cost of alteration would be significant.


***

I'm also challenged by the idea that a mixed fleet with 3 or more vehicle types (of LRT) would be desirable on the legacy network.

If the TTC could buy off-the-shelf there might be some case for that, but as also streetcars made for the legacy network require customization for TTC gauge, for the tight turning radii, and for the standard of being able to push another streetcar up the Bathurst Hill; that's a lot of cost to add to small orders.

I'm not saying there wouldn't be utility in carrying an additional model at any given time.........I just think the notion of 3-4 or more is questionable.
 
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Richard White said:
What I would like to see more of is Grand Unions. Switches are ok but we need more flexibility.
Click to expand...
Why do you think Grand Unions are better than switches and why do you think we need more than the 3 we have now (King/Spadina, Bathurst/Spadina and Queen/Spadina). Wiki has a useful article on Grand Unions (and three-quarter, semi and butterfly Unions). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_union They say:

"These types of complex junction [Grand Unions] are expensive to build and expensive to maintain. Special parts, sometimes made of manganese steel, are needed for each location where one rail crossed another (a "frog"); these parts often need to be custom-made and fitted for each single location, depending on the specific angle of crossing of the intersecting streets.

A full grand union junction consists of 88 frogs (where one rail crosses another rail), and 32 switchpoints (point blades) if single-point switches are not used. A tram or train crossing the junction will encounter four or twenty frogs within the space of crossing the junction.

For all of the possible tracks of a grand union to be used during normal operation, at least six different tram routes have to cross the union. In an intersection with lines oriented towards cardinal directions, these could be: north-south, north-east, north-west, south-east, south-west, and east–west."

There is no point installing a possible turn location in a location where it is unnecessary - look at the 2010 Report I referenced above to see where TTC staff thought we needed more switches. (OK, I might find a couple more but you do need to look at cost and in some locations there is simply not space for a turn, even if it would be useful - eastbound Queen to southbound Parliament?

According to this Wiki article, Grand Unions are very rare and Toronto has the only 3 in North America.
 
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