TTC: Other Items (catch all)

[Jonny5]

I wonder if they will ever budget in an upgrade to their byzantine power systems as clearly demonstrated today. As posted before, one would expect them to have at least 1 or more backups and certainly have a separate system to power the streetcars (on that note, it makes bbr's primove battery concept that much more inviting...).
Imagine when ATC comes online how much more taxing it will be to the grid.

Someone from the TTC today noted that particular vault was the single place where both subway and streetcar power distribution is co-located. The streetcar power supply has apparently been able to be re-routed, as they are running again while the subway is still shut down.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I saw in the news reports that 133 buses were sent out to deal with the issue this morning. Question, do they actually have 133 buses sitting around for something like this or do they take them from other routes? If they do have extra buses where do they get the drivers? Do the streetcar drivers switch to the buses?

They take them from other routes. The TTC doesn't have any spare busses for emergencies.

 

[Napoleon]

Someone from the TTC today noted that particular vault was the single place where both subway and streetcar power distribution is co-located. The streetcar power supply has apparently been able to be re-routed, as they are running again while the subway is still shut down.

I'm kind of shocked that both branches of Line 1, and 5 out of 6 downtown streetcar lines have a single point of failure in their electrical supply. That just seems like serious bad design. With that level of design flaw, there really isn't much the TTC can do that they didn't do today.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I just hope that with DRL and SmartTrack/RER that they will address that point of failure, by that time.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Someone from the TTC today noted that particular vault was the single place where both subway and streetcar power distribution is co-located. The streetcar power supply has apparently been able to be re-routed, as they are running again while the subway is still shut down.

And this isn't the only instance of single point failure of late - recall the issue at transit control backup power that knocked out communication for the entire subway system not even a year ago?

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2015/06/08/all-subway-service-suspended-in-toronto.html

Shudder to think how many potential instances of these failure modes there are lurking around the system. Other systems offer multiple redundancies and graceful degradation - we crash and burn on the ground with one vault fire.

AoD

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I heard that surge prices were 3x. Good day to bike, except ... Storm.

They lucked out that the storm didn't hit this morning - considering the chaos we've had, that scenario would be like the ne plus ultra of transit Armageddon.

AoD

 

[Filip]

For once my commute was effortless while most of the city couldn't get a vehicle let alone a seat.

Walked in like a sir!

 

[smallspy]

They take them from other routes. The TTC doesn't have any spare busses for emergencies.

That's not strictly true.

The spare ratio for buses has gone up by a substantial margin this year, as half of the 105 bus order from Nova was specifically to improve it.

Of course, more buses available doesn't necessarily mean that more are capable of being on the road - they aren't quite autonomous yet, after all.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[cplchanb]

And this isn't the only instance of single point failure of late - recall the issue at transit control backup power that knocked out communication for the entire subway system not even a year ago?

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2015/06/08/all-subway-service-suspended-in-toronto.html

Shudder to think how many potential instances of these failure modes there are lurking around the system. Other systems offer multiple redundancies and graceful degradation - we crash and burn on the ground with one vault fire.

AoD

and here we are screaming for more lines and whatnot, ignoring the fact that our current system is so poorly designed that 1 failure will paralyse the entire downtown core. IMO they need to fix this and separate these services along with backup power BEFORE they even start to think about further expansion.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

and here we are screaming for more lines and whatnot, ignoring the fact that our current system is so poorly designed that 1 failure will paralyse the entire downtown core. IMO they need to fix this and separate these services along with backup power BEFORE they even start to think about further expansion.

The need to tackle both, though the time scale is probably not the same. Having one line in and on its' own is a potential single point failure, but dealing with that will take more time than changing the power supply system. At least one'd hope, but who knows.

AoD

 

[Steve X]

That's not strictly true.

The spare ratio for buses has gone up by a substantial margin this year, as half of the 105 bus order from Nova was specifically to improve it.

Of course, more buses available doesn't necessarily mean that more are capable of being on the road - they aren't quite autonomous yet, after all.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

Even if they had buses available, there's no operators available. They can probably get a few ops from every division to do some overtime work. All the relief buses they have around for like the 29 and 32 would be sent downtown.

and here we are screaming for more lines and whatnot, ignoring the fact that our current system is so poorly designed that 1 failure will paralyse the entire downtown core. IMO they need to fix this and separate these services along with backup power BEFORE they even start to think about further expansion.

The more substations they have, the more electricity they have to pay for plus maintenance fees. A relief line would probably bring changes to the power distribution system and allow they to change they way things are setup.

 

[salsa]

Has his ever happened before?

 

[Megaton327]

Has his ever happened before?

View attachment 68577

GO valid on TTC is a very regular occurrence. Haven't heard of TTC being valid on GO, unlikely but possible; definitely hasn't happened on UPX. Good of them to do that, though.

 

[Tuscani01]

Does that include reverse commuters? (Heading to Weston or Dundas West from Union?)

 

[W. K. Lis]

I think that the penny-pinchers, who cut-cut-cut, had some contribution to this morning's problems. Bombardier had an option called MITRAC which allows the storage of electricity over areas of power outages. See link.

The MITRAC Energy Saver is also the ideal solution if sections without a catenary are desired (e.g. for aesthetic reasons). The MITRAC Energy Saver enables catenary free operation for short distances and as a part of the BOMBARDIER PRIMOVE solution also for longer distances. Additionally, the storage system makes it possible to continue operation in case of maintenance work or power failures in the grid. This can be crucial especially for rescue operations in tunnels to reach the next station allowing save evacuation of the passengers.

If both Toronto Rocket and the Bombardier Outlook streetcars had MITRAC, it would have been of some help. Thank the penny-pinchers.