TTC: Jane (LRT) RapidTO

[mossynukes]

Kipling.

I don't agree that Kipling has the density or the demand to be worth a rapid transit line. I do agree that a diagonal Weston Road alignment until Mount Dennis and North on Jane from there could work, But another routing I could see is one along Highway 27 from Long Branch to Humber College. I say this because of all the developments and Trip generators along Highway 27/427 planned and existing. Starting from Humber College with a line 6 connection going south, are the two largest casinos in Toronto that attract thousands a day, as well as a dying mall across the street that I speculate will be redeveloped to residential or mixed high density. South of that is Pearson Airport which everyone acknowledges its importance and how crucial it would be for a rapid transit connection. South of the airport could be a connection to Mississauga transit at Renforth, which would benefit Mississauga residents commuting to toronto. East of that is a new development on eglinton and 427 that consists of 4, 20 story towers, called the 9hundred. Next stop could be rathbrun which is walking distance from a planned high density neighborhood with several existing and future towers. Same goes for burhamthorpe and Bloor which could also be stops. Next is dundas which will be home to a giant Cloverdale Mall development and south of that is sherway gardens that we all feel should have a rapid transit station. The last stop could be long branch with connection to GO, more Missisauga, and the streetcar

 

[chrisw]

Jan 16. 2024: Following TTC's Board endorsement of the TTC's 5-Year Service Plan and 10-YearOutlook, the TTC initiated the RapidTO: Jane Street feasibility study in 2021 in partnership with the City. The study includes the section of Jane Street between Steeles Avenue West and Eglinton Avenue West. Consultation effort is underway in Wards 5(York-South Weston), 6 (York Centre) and 7 (Humber River-Black Creek).

The TTC and the City of Toronto continue to advance work on Jane Street. Staff have completed technical analysis and preliminary designs for five options on Jane Street. Feedback collected in the first consultation in Spring 2023 will be used to develop a preferred design. A second consultation is anticipated to take place in Q1 2024 and will include opportunities to provide feedback on the preferred design. A report to the Executive Committee is anticipated to be brought forward in Q2 2024 to seek Council endorsement to implement the recommended design.

 

[christiesplits]

For those who have been following this proposed line since the Transit City days, was there ever any discussion about building the Jane LRT underground, or was it always assumed it was going to run at street-level?

 

[Northern Light]

For those who have been following this proposed line since the Transit City days, was there ever any discussion about building the Jane LRT underground, or was it always assumed it was going to run at street-level?

The assumption was generally at-grade north of Eglinton, and tunneled from somewhere south thereof to Bloor.

 

[drum118]

The assumption was generally at-grade north of Eglinton, and tunneled from somewhere south thereof to Bloor.

During the EA for Jane, tunneling was the best option south of Weston Rd as you were dealing with two valleys between it and north of St Clair as well two rivers/creeks.

The best place was to tunnel south of Eglinton as you have two hills between there and St Clair, but you are in a flood area. With the Crosstown Line is now elevated crossing Jane now prevents the Jane line being elevated now.

You would have to start the tunneling north of the rail corridor to get under the rivers and then start to rise south of the second river to be less deep to Bloor than it was for the north tunnel.

 

[Bureaucromancer]

I’ve come to the conclusion that if it comes back we shouldn’t be looking at light rail south of Eglinton, quite possibly divert the LRT over to Mount Dennis, with the intent of something metro like, be it standalone or an OL branch, south of Eglinton where the tunneling is needed.

 

[duty free]

I’ve come to the conclusion that if it comes back we shouldn’t be looking at light rail south of Eglinton, quite possibly divert the LRT over to Mount Dennis, with the intent of something metro like, be it standalone or an OL branch, south of Eglinton where the tunneling is needed.

pre-metro perhaps? or is that too ambitious?

 

[drum118]

I’ve come to the conclusion that if it comes back we shouldn’t be looking at light rail south of Eglinton, quite possibly divert the LRT over to Mount Dennis, with the intent of something metro like, be it standalone or an OL branch, south of Eglinton where the tunneling is needed.

I guess you like to waste riders time as well forcing extra transfers to do what you think should happen.

How do you plan to do it with the Crosstown being elevated there??

Ridership on Jane doesn't meet nor will met a metro ridership numbers to do it for the line

 

[T3G]

I’ve come to the conclusion that if it comes back we shouldn’t be looking at light rail south of Eglinton, quite possibly divert the LRT over to Mount Dennis, with the intent of something metro like, be it standalone or an OL branch, south of Eglinton where the tunneling is needed.

How curious that proponents of the Sheppard Subway and Scarborough Subway used the transfers as a reason for why those lines should be built as subways throughout the entire length, but apparently, when LRT is on the table, forced transfers in the middle of the corridor are hunky dory.

 

[duty free]

I guess you like to waste riders time as well forcing extra transfers to do what you think should happen.

How do you plan to do it with the Crosstown being elevated there??

Ridership on Jane doesn't meet nor will met a metro ridership numbers to do it for the line

i agree.

the only complicated section would be Bloor to St. Clair on Jane. North of St. Clair it can run at street level being > 27 m, but south that's looking like a 2km tunnel.

 

[ARG1]

How curious that proponents of the Sheppard Subway and Scarborough Subway used the transfers as a reason for why those lines should be built as subways throughout the entire length, but apparently, when LRT is on the table, forced transfers in the middle of the corridor are hunky dory.

What he provided was an interesting idea, and for what its worth there is merit. One of the biggest problems with Rapid Transit on Jane is how close it reaches Mt. Dennis without actually serving it, which is extremely annoying considering how useful of a transfer that would be.

That being said, all this is is an interesting thought experiment, and you're very much jumping the gun here trying to "own" subway supporters by pointing out that this is a linear transfer. No, I don't personally agree that North and South of Eglinton should be served by separate lines, but I have seen fantasy proposals of Western Ontario Line expansions that involve going along the Kitchener Corridor or Roncesvalles to reach Jane via Mount Dennis, and I think these are at least worth entertaining whilst not being ideal.

 

[Sunnyside]

What he provided was an interesting idea, and for what its worth there is merit. One of the biggest problems with Rapid Transit on Jane is how close it reaches Mt. Dennis without actually serving it, which is extremely annoying considering how useful of a transfer that would be.

That being said, all this is is an interesting thought experiment, and you're very much jumping the gun here trying to "own" subway supporters by pointing out that this is a linear transfer. No, I don't personally agree that North and South of Eglinton should be served by separate lines, but I have seen fantasy proposals of Western Ontario Line expansions that involve going along the Kitchener Corridor or Roncesvalles to reach Jane via Mount Dennis, and I think these are at least worth entertaining whilst not being ideal.

I think part of this question of mode for Jane, and where, can be answered by answering one more question of mine; is Jane north of Eglinton not busier than south of it? I was under the impression this was the case.

If both are equal, then the line needs to be continuous; if not, you can split modes/lines up. It’s essentially a question of where these people are going- if Jane is just how people are getting downtown, then it isn’t crucial we stay in the corridor to Bloor unless they’re making crosstown trips. I find this less likely than these riders heading to the core, and so we shouldn’t be dead-set on building from Bloor to highway 7. Especially given the challenges don’t really start until south of Eglinton.

In any case, Line 5 and GO expansion on the Kitchener Line should tell us what is needed on Jane and where.

 

[Bureaucromancer]

If both are equal, then the line needs to be continuous; if not, you can split modes/lines up. It’s essentially a question of where these people are going- if Jane is just how people are getting downtown, then it isn’t crucial we stay in the corridor to Bloor unless they’re making crosstown trips. I find this less likely than these riders heading to the core, and so we shouldn’t be dead-set on building from Bloor to highway 7. Especially given the challenges don’t really start until south of Eglinton.

I’d suggest it’s the second part of this, rather than volume that really matters. It’s not about whether the volume is roughly equivalent, but whether that demand is meaningfully split at Eglinton. My suspicion is that, with a GO, Eglinton LRT and possibly OL connection at Mount Pleasant the actual amount of true through riders would be pretty limited. I’ll also say that the balance in my head shifts quite a bit if you CAN realistically bring surface running down to St. Clair…

Now, the other thing I’ll put out there in terms of raw musings is that if through running all the way IS needed Jane would be a very nice candidate for build out at TTC gauge (am I crazy or did Jane survive as TTC Gauge for some time after the bulk of Transit City had been changed to standard? I seem to recall that the EA had already been ‘paused’ by the time that happened, but that some documents put it in a bucket with Lakeshore to go TTC gauge if it were revived) and through running downtown through either a Queen tunnel or a lakeshore ROW.

With all that said, I’m really getting quite fond of RapidTO. A Jane rapid transit project of some sort should happen… but I’d really rather we focus on phased upgrades to the major bus corridors at a city wide level in the short term… at least until the obvious GO electrification, subway expansion, OL extension and 407/427 rapid transit projects are funded. And yes, I DO, with some real sadness with my foamer hat on, put the Eglinton East LRT in that category of ‘nice to have, should be protected for, but not a priority until the regional stuff is done’.

 

[TRONto]

I’d suggest it’s the second part of this, rather than volume that really matters. It’s not about whether the volume is roughly equivalent, but whether that demand is meaningfully split at Eglinton. My suspicion is that, with a GO, Eglinton LRT and possibly OL connection at Mount Pleasant the actual amount of true through riders would be pretty limited. I’ll also say that the balance in my head shifts quite a bit if you CAN realistically bring surface running down to St. Clair…

Now, the other thing I’ll put out there in terms of raw musings is that if through running all the way IS needed Jane would be a very nice candidate for build out at TTC gauge (am I crazy or did Jane survive as TTC Gauge for some time after the bulk of Transit City had been changed to standard? I seem to recall that the EA had already been ‘paused’ by the time that happened, but that some documents put it in a bucket with Lakeshore to go TTC gauge if it were revived) and through running downtown through either a Queen tunnel or a lakeshore ROW.

With all that said, I’m really getting quite fond of RapidTO. A Jane rapid transit project of some sort should happen… but I’d really rather we focus on phased upgrades to the major bus corridors at a city wide level in the short term… at least until the obvious GO electrification, subway expansion, OL extension and 407/427 rapid transit projects are funded. And yes, I DO, with some real sadness with my foamer hat on, put the Eglinton East LRT in that category of ‘nice to have, should be protected for, but not a priority until the regional stuff is done’.

I was going to say something similar. The decision where to go with Jane st long term may be best to postpone until at least a year after the Crosstown is open. I suspect a Skytrain/OL solution from Steeles to Eglinton would be the best bet as ridership from Eglinton to Bloor may drop dramatically, but we would be best to wait and see what will happen.

 

[dougtoronto]

Wouldn't it make sense for any potential line on Jane to go on/over the train tracks between Lawrence and Eglinton, and then down to Dundas West (stopping at Mount Dennis and Stockyards)? I get that the line has to connect to Line 2 in addition to just Line 5, but I don't think it has to be Jane station and especially not with the low density on Jane between Bloor and Eglinton.