TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

[books]

If the probability of 1 streetcar which travels 300km/day breaking down is 0.1, then it will break down once every ten days for an MTBF of 3000km (which I think is CLRVish). If the probability is 0.1 in a fleet of 100 cars, there will be 10 breakdowns a day but MTBF remains 3000km. The only way your way makes sense is that *one streetcar will break down a day irrespective of fleet size* but that's kinda bananas unless you have an external factor such as I mentioned above re maintenance.

What you've said is logical and it's been a long time since I took stats in university.

I'll just hide behind my original argument that reliable data on MTBF for the Flexities will be more readily available once the fleet size increases. It's still early in the game for the Flexities thanks to Bombardier's slow delivery. There are many variables that can affect MTBF and in my opinion we need to wait until the fleet is larger and has been in service longer before we can pass judgment. Any new system is going to have problems and no doubt the Flexities have their fair share of bugs even now.

Look! It's Elvis!!!

(sound of running footsteps receding in the distance...)

 

[rbt]

Have they ever shipped more then one car at one time? Alos does anyone know if they have more of the flat cars available for the delivery of them or do they still only have two?

They've sent subway cars in small groups. I know they arrive by truck to Wilson but I've been led to believe (haven't seen it) they arrive to the GTA by train.

 

[crs1026]

There are three transporter cars in the rotation. Last I heard, all three are in Thunder Bay and available.

- Paul

 

[pstogios]

Wow, it's getting worse. Only 15 Flexities out this morning in peak time.

Yes I will continue to count streetcars because it's a huge problem - taxpayers paid for them, we have a crisis in lack of streetcars, and the Flexities are not being deployed as they should be. And yes this is primarily Bombardier's fault (as we have said over and over here) but when TTC receives cars it's up to them to actually deploy them, not keep them collecting dust in the barns. (Yes I am accounting for two cars out for perpetual training, where are the others?)

 

[Mariner35]

I'm sure they have their reasons but as it is such a major problem why not contact the TTC and ask for an update. Let us know what you hear back.

 

[nfitz]

Wow, it's getting worse. Only 15 Flexities out this morning in peak time.

17 out right now. 14 on Spadina, 2 on Harbourfront, and 1 on Cherry. As usual for the last fortnight.

Yes I will continue to count streetcars because it's a huge problem

It's not even a minor problem! But try counting them all, eh?

 

[Voltz]

There are three transporter cars in the rotation. Last I heard, all three are in Thunder Bay and available.

- Paul

Do you mean three sets of transporter cars? They are used in sets of three since the streetcars are too long for one car.

 

[drum118]

Do you mean three sets of transporter cars? They are used in sets of three since the streetcars are too long for one car.

It maybe the 3 main flats are at BBD and the 1 idle cars is on the switcher for pickup and then added to the other idle car in the yard. The idle flats can be any flat, while the main flat('s) are setup for the car.

If there is only a flat and 2 idle cars in TB, you are looking a week turn around to get then to Toronto and back to TB if everything lines up right. This will allow for a car every 2 weeks. Anything less than that will require another 3 pack.

 

[crs1026]

Do you mean three sets of transporter cars? They are used in sets of three since the streetcars are too long for one car.

I meant three cars each having the equipment needed to be capable of holding one Flexity. The idler flats are "plain" flatcars that are added at either end to make up a three-pack. I don't know if the idlers are dedicated to a single transporter car, ie six in total - or if these are just grabbed as needed.

As of this moment, all three transporter cars, and any/all associated idler flats, are in Thunder Bay.

- Paul

 

[drum118]

I meant three cars each having the equipment needed to be capable of holding one Flexity. The idler flats are "plain" flatcars that are added at either end to make up a three-pack. I don't know if the idlers are dedicated to a single transporter car, ie six in total - or if these are just grabbed as needed.

As of this moment, all three transporter cars, and any/all associated idler flats, are in Thunder Bay.

- Paul

In this case, the idler cars are lease like the main flat to run in a 3 pack. The main flat car is 89' while the idlers can be 40' or 60' or 89', but most likely 60'. The cars come out of the lease pool fleet by one of the leasing company or by CP.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

The extra empty flat cars added around the one the streetcar is on ar for safety to prevent it from being damaged by the cars in front and behind because it's slightly longer then the car itself. Alos they can be used to help with breaking as well on the train too.

The Toronto Rocket trains arrive on flatbed trucks because there isn't anywhere for the TTC to receive them by rail after they severed the connection at greenwood yard. plus they can transport them in sections that fit in a standard flatbed truck the flexities require a specialized one like the first couple were delivered on before the rail connection was ready.

 

[pstogios]

It's not even a minor problem! But try counting them all, eh?

I did. I am using your link. You checked 1 hour later. I will check at 9:30 am each time from now on. I'm sure I will still see not enough cars out there. We should be at 19+ on a regular basis.

 

[nfitz]

I did. I am using your link. You checked 1 hour later. I will check at 9:30 am each time from now on.

The difference then, is likely because Spadina is the exception to the rule, where it only has scheduled 12 cars out during morning peak, but has 14 cars out midday (i.e. after about 9 AM).

 

[crs1026]

I'm curious. What is the TTC's traditional definition of a "heavy duty cycle"..... ie, how long would the TTC have allowed a CLRV or ALRV to remain on the road before having it head to the shop for cleaning or whatever? (I'm talking about at their prime, not now when they are experiencing age-related reliability issues)

Lots of shift relief happens on-line, not at the terminals. So cars have always stayed out longer than a single operator's 8-hour tour of duty.

You see where I am going.....even at 3 AM, there are, what, 20 streetcars on the road? As a hypothetical exercise - what if the available Flexity cars were put on the road, and left there? The limiting factor might be the need for cleaning, not the mechanical reliability. How long before they all had to come back to the shop for one reason or another?

I doubt the TTC ever took this approach for CLRV/ALRV's - so no good reason why they would actually do this for Flexities. But it would be interesting to know how their dispatch standard for Flexities compares to ALRV/CLRV. The new cars may actually be out there more than the traditional norm.

We just don't know.

- Paul

 

[smallspy]

I'm curious. What is the TTC's traditional definition of a "heavy duty cycle"..... ie, how long would the TTC have allowed a CLRV or ALRV to remain on the road before having it head to the shop for cleaning or whatever? (I'm talking about at their prime, not now when they are experiencing age-related reliability issues)

Lots of shift relief happens on-line, not at the terminals. So cars have always stayed out longer than a single operator's 8-hour tour of duty.

You see where I am going.....even at 3 AM, there are, what, 20 streetcars on the road? As a hypothetical exercise - what if the available Flexity cars were put on the road, and left there? The limiting factor might be the need for cleaning, not the mechanical reliability. How long before they all had to come back to the shop for one reason or another?

I doubt the TTC ever took this approach for CLRV/ALRV's - so no good reason why they would actually do this for Flexities. But it would be interesting to know how their dispatch standard for Flexities compares to ALRV/CLRV. The new cars may actually be out there more than the traditional norm.

We just don't know.

- Paul

There had been, until a couple of years ago, a couple of runs on Queen that stayed out for 25+ hours every day - the run from the first day would be in service for an hour or so with the same run number for the following day - but I don't think that they have been doing this much lately. The issue doesn't seem to be so much as the reliability, or lack thereof, but rather the inability to keep a vehicle in an appropriate state of cleanliness. There were also some bus runs that did the same, but again, they seem to be trying to minimize that.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.