TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

[edmundoconnor]

And yes, I am suggesting some kind of TTC plot, perhaps to put pressure on Bombardier.

I have a very difficult time believing this: it assumes a base level of cynicism on the part of the TTC as to strain credulity. Moreover, such a theory removes the blame from sitting squarely on the shoulders of Bombardier, where it rightly belongs. If Bombardier had actually honoured its original delivery schedule, no-one would be too bothered about a couple of units sitting in the yard. We're fighting over crumbs, when the contractor has fallen down on the job time and again. The TTC should push back against Bombardier hard for this level of incompetence.

 

[nfitz]

And yes, I am suggesting some kind of TTC plot, perhaps to put pressure on Bombardier.

That's an absurd suggestion.

I don't even see how a couple of extra streetcars not-in-service would make any difference to Bombardier.

 

[books]

As taxpayers that paid for them, we are entitled to actually use them, not have them sit around doing nothing.
And yes, I am suggesting some kind of TTC plot, perhaps to put pressure on Bombardier.

As taxpayers we do use the streetcars, as I do frequently. Paying your fair share of taxes to run society doesn't make you king of the hill able to dictate what you are "entitled" to. Streetcars are kept back for maintenance, cleaning, training, etc.

To suggest that this is some sort of plot on the part of the TTC is paranoid. The TTC has better things to do and Bombardier simply wouldn't care if the TTC were to hold streetcars back from service.

 

[AlbertHWagstaff]

As taxpayers we do use the streetcars, as I do frequently. Paying your fair share of taxes to run society doesn't make you king of the hill able to dictate what you are "entitled" to. Streetcars are kept back for maintenance, cleaning, training, etc.

To suggest that this is some sort of plot on the part of the TTC is paranoid. The TTC has better things to do and Bombardier simply wouldn't care if the TTC were to hold streetcars back from service.

Over the past couple of years the TTC has been pressed each day to have enough serviceable cars available to make the full complement of regular service. To suggest that they would "hold back" serviceable cars while possibly cancelling runs because of a car shortage because they're "pressuring Bombardier" is ridiculous. If cars are available to run and not down for defects, repairs, inspections or running maintenance, they go out.

 

[Allandale25]

Any news on when 4427 with be shipped? Or are we now waiting for 4428?

 

[DSC]

Any news on when 4427 with be shipped? Or are we now waiting for 4428?

The next Flexities will arrive when they arrive and the TTC will put them in service when they pass the testing and then they will show up on the street and online. One day, far away I fear, all 204 will arrive and we will need more. Have a drink, relax and be patient.

 

[books]

Any news on when 4427 with be shipped? Or are we now waiting for 4428?

It would be great if we get both 4402 and 4427 in November, but only time will tell. It'll be interesting to see if Bombardier can ramp up production in 2017 so that we can start seeing more Flexities on routes other than 509 and 510.

 

[dowlingm]

Bombardier's own concerns are cars accepted and Mean Time Between Failures - contractual items. They are in deep waters with the first two, worrying about TTC fleet deployment is far from their minds I would think.

 

[books]

Bombardier's own concerns are cars accepted and Mean Time Between Failures - contractual items. They are in deep waters with the first two, ...

With fewer than 30 cars in the fleet can there really be a reliable measure of MTBF? Logically, more reliable data re MTBF should be available once there are many more cars in the fleet and they've been in service for a couple of years.

 

[DSC]

Any news on when 4427 with be shipped? Or are we now waiting for 4428?

The next Flexities will arrive when they arrive and the TTC will put them in service when they pass the testing and then they will show up on the street and online. One day, far away I fear, all 204 will arrive and we will need more. Have a drink, relax and be patient.

 

[nfitz]

Have a drink, relax and be patient.

Drinking however leads to impaired memory, and you start telling the same things over and over again.

 

[dowlingm]

With fewer than 30 cars in the fleet can there really be a reliable measure of MTBF? Logically, more reliable data re MTBF should be available once there are many more cars in the fleet and they've been in service for a couple of years.

I've read that justification previously and I don't understand it at all. There may be some scope to say that as the fleet expands and TTC mechanics get better at preventative maintenance of their new platform, that things should improve somewhat - but the current average gap between failures (October CEO report) has to improve 400% to meet target and the contractual point at which 35000km between failures has to be attained is the 60th car, when the fleet will only be three times larger than the 20 cars the report refers to as being in service. Unless there is a lemon car in there screwing the numbers, there is surely no way that's happening.

 

[books]

There may be some scope to say that as the fleet expands and TTC mechanics get better at preventative maintenance of their new platform, that things should improve somewhat - ...

That's definitely a good point. I'm sure that there's a world of difference between maintaining a CLRV and Flexity.

I think the MTBF also depends on the definition of a failure. If a streetcar has a door that won't open is that considered by the TTC as a failure? Does that get included in the stats on failures? There are still three other doors.
If the automated voice announcement stops working is that counted as a failure? Neither of these cases would necessitate immediately taking the streetcar out of service but both might still be used to determine the MTBF. I don't work for the TTC so I don't know what they consider a failure to be.

In general, I've always thought that the smaller a statistical population, the larger the effect of each action within that population. If you have two streetcars and one breaks down then the MTBF will be much lower (i.e., worse) than if you have one hundred streetcars and one breaks down. That seems logical to me.

 

[dowlingm]

In general, I've always thought that the smaller a statistical population, the larger the effect of each action within that population. If you have two streetcars and one breaks down then the MTBF will be much lower (i.e., worse) than if you have one hundred streetcars and one breaks down. That seems logical to me.

If the probability of 1 streetcar which travels 300km/day breaking down is 0.1, then it will break down once every ten days for an MTBF of 3000km (which I think is CLRVish). If the probability is 0.1 in a fleet of 100 cars, there will be 10 breakdowns a day but MTBF remains 3000km. The only way your way makes sense is that *one streetcar will break down a day irrespective of fleet size* but that's kinda bananas unless you have an external factor such as I mentioned above re maintenance.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Have they ever shipped more then one car at one time? Alos does anyone know if they have more of the flat cars available for the delivery of them or do they still only have two?