TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

[EastYorkTTCFan]

The crisis for Bombardier is approaching - they have hit their marks in the last few months but if they can actually deliver the promised production rate with the second line *and* the doors issue can be figured out (latest CEO report) I would take my chances with them. At this stage BBD have not earned the trust that they can do either.

You must have some sort of insider information that you aren't sharing either that or you just want to see them fail. You probably also think that we can just have another comay star producing vehicles tomorrow and they will be able to be put onto the track and have no problems what so ever.

 

[Steve X]

I think by shutting BBD out of the option and buying from another supplier at any cost just cause BBD screwed up in an immature behaviour. The city doesn't even know how to fund them. How does spending significantly more just to bypass BBD have any respect to taxpayers? Either buy for another supplier or spend that money on something else like another carhouse or the Waterfront LRT.

It's a naive thing ML has done by spending half a billion on more vehicles and we don't even know how much do they have to spend on modifications on the contract to make them work for the Crosstown.

I'm not here to support BBD but picking the best option available.

 

[44 North]

With the exercisable option, can it be tweaked to hypothetically provide double-ended dual cab Outlook LFLRVs? Maybe instead of 60 we get 50? Don't want to go into fantasy stuff like future vehicles for waterfront transit, but I think for prospective orders we should consider bidirectionality. If Bombardier can't do it, or makes it costly, then put out a tender.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

I think by shutting BBD out of the option and buying from another supplier at any cost just cause BBD screwed up in an immature behaviour.

Exactly Bombardiers big screw up was outsourced the building of the frames and bodies to plant in mexico, It probably would have been fine if they didn't have problems with the welders quitting and going elsewhere once they were trained in how to build the frames and then having to train the replacements from the beginning again. The strike a few years ago didn't help either but all of the things that have happened with this order could have happened with any other comapy.No one around has order this amount of cars in a single order for along time.

 

[rbt]

Exactly Bombardiers big screw up was outsourced the building of the frames and bodies to plant in mexico,

That wasn't outsourced work; it's BBDs plant in Mexico (purchased in '92 IIRC). Yes, I do think that's worse than a 3rd party sub-contractor messing up.

The Mexican plant (located in Sahagún), however, turns out quality locomotives at a good rate and has for decades. They've also cranked out a large chunk of rolling stock for the Metro in Mexico City with few issues. Whatever went wrong was related the the LRT product line, not the plant as a whole.

 

[dowlingm]

You must have some sort of insider information that you aren't sharing

nope

either that or you just want to see them fail.

Nope

You probably also think that we can just have another comay star producing vehicles tomorrow and they will be able to be put onto the track and have no problems what so ever.

nope.

I want the best combination of price/delivery/execution the TTC can get. Right now, that's Bombardier. If they fail in standing up the second line or its supply chain, it isn't. If they can't fix the quality problems, it isn't. I'm not a railfan cheering for my preferred manufacturer. I am a TTC rider who wants better than a rusty CLRV on the two streetcar trips that I made today, and I don't want it at a price that will embolden the anti rail tendency on Council.

 

[Steve X]

I want the best combination of price/delivery/execution the TTC can get. Right now, that's Bombardier. If they fail in standing up the second line or its supply chain, it isn't. If they can't fix the quality problems, it isn't. I'm not a railfan cheering for my preferred manufacturer. I am a TTC rider who wants better than a rusty CLRV on the two streetcar trips that I made today, and I don't want it at a price that will embolden the anti rail tendency on Council.

All of this would be clear as where BBD stands. I believe TTC will likely ask BBD to allow more streetcars to be delivered before making a decision abut an option. Maybe when 70 or 100 cars are delivered. BBD has to prove to the TTC they can deliver first with both assembly lines. With 60 cars, only about 5-8 cars would be produced on the new line. That's not a lot. The new line should have been assembling by now if they are to ramp up in fall. Is it assembling?

 

[dowlingm]

All of this would be clear as where BBD stands. I believe TTC will likely ask BBD to allow more streetcars to be delivered before making a decision abut an option. Maybe when 70 or 100 cars are delivered. BBD has to prove to the TTC they can deliver first with both assembly lines. With 60 cars, only about 5-8 cars would be produced on the new line. That's not a lot. The new line should have been assembling by now if they are to ramp up in fall. Is it assembling?

CBC says they just got a labour deal on 7 day working: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...reement-ratification-ttc-streetcars-1.4196947

To make the most of that, the rest of their supply chain needs to be delivering parts at the needed rate.

Apparently 4440 sat on Hillcrest Spur the whole weekend. Let's hope local taggers don't notice that happening on an ongoing basis...

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

I want the best combination of price/delivery/execution the TTC can get. Right now, that's Bombardier. If they fail in standing up the second line or its supply chain, it isn't. If they can't fix the quality problems, it isn't. I'm not a railfan cheering for my preferred manufacturer. I am a TTC rider who wants better than a rusty CLRV on the two streetcar trips that I made today, and I don't want it at a price that will embolden the anti rail tendency on Council.

Same with me

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Apparently 4440 sat on Hillcrest Spur the whole weekend. Let's hope local taggers don't notice that happening on an ongoing basis...

I believe they have security posted around it after the last one was tagged. The TTC generally does not unload them on the weekds as the staff that do it probably only work weekdays.

 

[Allandale25]

Some news from Ben Spurr:

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Ben Spurr‏Verified account@BenSpurr 30m30 minutes ago
Here's a statement from Bombardier, which attributes possibility of missing 2017 target to "very limited, short-term issue"

"potential, very limited, short-term issue". Honestly I don't care if BBD have to teleport the parts to make good at this point.

AoD

 

[Leo_Chan]

View attachment 114829

Ben Spurr‏Verified account@BenSpurr 30m30 minutes ago
Here's a statement from Bombardier, which attributes possibility of missing 2017 target to "very limited, short-term issue"

"potential, very limited, short-term issue". Honestly I don't care if BBD have to teleport the parts to make good at this point.

AoD

Why not just create the LRVs out of thin air while we're at it and arrive already running on their lines.

 

[dowlingm]

Also, TTC looking for "flexibility" from Bombardier on when to exercise the 60 car option (which was due to fall in November). Presumably this will be the price of tolerating whatever this latest delay is.

 

[Adjei]

I blame Metrolinx for this.