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TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

So just saw 4422 pushing a busted CLRV into the loop at Queens Quay and Spadina, great metaphor for the current streetcar situation.
Why do they even bother having CLRVS on 509 right now anyway. I think they have too many vehicles on it right now especially considering it's not running it's full route, even then they could probably just runit with about six of the new ones maybe 8 when its busy.
 
Why do they even bother having CLRVS on 509 right now anyway. I think they have too many vehicles on it right now especially considering it's not running it's full route, even then they could probably just runit with about six of the new ones maybe 8 when its busy.

They do not have enough LFLRVs to run the route.
 
Any word on 4431? If this mess is not to get worse, I'm hoping that you guys would at least keep getting the around 1 per month that was going on before, but I haven't heard of one in January yet, and time's a ticking. Anything from Thunder Bay?
 
Any word on 4431? If this mess is not to get worse, I'm hoping that you guys would at least keep getting the around 1 per month that was going on before, but I haven't heard of one in January yet, and time's a ticking. Anything from Thunder Bay?

Bookmark this link. (4431 and 4432 marked as "on order".)
 
Moderator: Please move this to a more apt string if this is not the best. I searched all the streetcar strings and none was truly general. Tripped across this reading up on UK Prefab Housing (a massive topic not touched by the urbantoronto site, albeit it should be, there will be knock-on effects for Canada, not least because it involves *massive* Chinese building technology/materials companies which won't make inroads in the EU, but will in Canada http://news.sky.com/story/tens-of-thousands-of-quick-build-homes-set-to-tackle-housing-crisis-10719122 http://www.builderonline.com/building/new-prefab-factories-in-the-uk-will-build-25-000-homes-a-year_c )
10 new streetcar lines taking shape across the U.S.
The urban rail car renaissance continues
by Patrick Sisson Jan 19, 2017, 4:39pm EST

It may be hard to believe when surveying the country’s car-centered cities, but streetcars used to be a mainstay of American urban design, ferrying pedestrians across town in hundreds of cities across the nation. While many fell into decline and dis-use by the middle of the century, a new wave of streetcars has opened in cities in the past two decades, a somewhat nostalgic side effect of reurbanization looking to bring back more sustainable, pedestrian friendly transportation.

After a wave of systems broke ground and began running in the 2000s in cities such as Dallas, Portland and Salt Lake City, more and more streetcars systems are taking shape despite the complaint that these new takes on an older form of transportation lack the speed and frequency needed to truly take root, and tend to operate in limited areas and functions more as tourist magnets (high ridership figures in Kansas City and growing pains in Cincinnati showcase this disparity). Here’s a look at some of the recently opened and proposed lines popping up across the country.
[...continues in fine detail with many excellent photos...]
http://www.curbed.com/2017/1/19/14329212/streetcar-urban-transportation-rail
 
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Moderator: Please move this to a more apt string if this is not the best. I searched all the streetcar strings and none was truly general. Tripped across this reading up on UK Prefab Housing (a massive topic not touched by the urbantoronto site, albeit it should be, there will be knock-on effects for Canada, not least because it involves *massive* Chinese building technology/materials companies which won't make inroads in the EU, but will in Canada http://news.sky.com/story/tens-of-thousands-of-quick-build-homes-set-to-tackle-housing-crisis-10719122 http://www.builderonline.com/building/new-prefab-factories-in-the-uk-will-build-25-000-homes-a-year_c )

http://www.curbed.com/2017/1/19/14329212/streetcar-urban-transportation-rail

The author of this is on-staff for the publication, a UK building trade/design magazine, so featuring a special on US streetcar renaissance is especially intriguing.
The US is under going a renaissance of new LRT/Streetcars lines being built, expanded and new rolling stock.

2016 saw 3 new cities opening new systems with 2 to come in 2017 and 3 in 2018. One in 2017 is only a 4 hour drive away.

Boston just order another 134 subway trains (about 850 cars) from the Chinese firm building cars for them now.

One can say Canada is doing the same thing with Ottawa line opening in 2018, Mississauga in 2022, Hamilton, Surrey BC along with various lines in Toronto. Then Calgary & Edmonton are building new and expanding lines.
 
One can say Canada is doing the same thing with Ottawa line opening in 2018, Mississauga in 2022, Hamilton, Surrey BC along with various lines in Toronto. Then Calgary & Edmonton are building new and expanding lines.
Definitely! I forget which streetcar string it was in, but a poster had made the claim that (gist) "Streetcars are no longer relevant". Btw: I corrected my original post on claiming that was a UK publication, it's a US one.

In another forum again, (it may have been this one) the topic of BBD's new factory outside Kingston http://www.thewhig.com/2016/05/30/companys-shift-benefits-local-plant was being discussed and my wondering why the claim (gist) "to produce for the entire North Am market" was being made so enthusiastically with the 'Trump Factor' being so prominent, and getting even more of a believable threat http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...rumps-protectionist-measures/article33571210/

It remains to be seen as to the outcome of that, but it's not looking good for continued domestic streetcar production unless the Cdn market can justify the volume needed to keep BBD in production here. As it is, many of the parts are imported from Europe. To be continued...
 
Boston just order another 134 subway trains (about 850 cars) from the Chinese firm building cars for them now.

got that one in just under the wire.....caught about 1/2 hour of Steven T. Mnuchin's confirmation hearing today.....the bit where he was talking about it being a priority to extend/strengthen the "buy American" provisions.....the motto seems to be "if American taxpayers are paying for it....it will be built in American factories"
 
got that one in just under the wire.....caught about 1/2 hour of Steven T. Mnuchin's confirmation hearing today.....the bit where he was talking about it being a priority to extend/strengthen the "buy American" provisions.....the motto seems to be "if American taxpayers are paying for it....it will be built in American factories"
Yup...although the timing raises a few questions, not the least transit providers knowing that with "American only" clauses, costs are going to rise substantially, and perhaps Boston's "just under the wire" reflects that.

Glad to see the two rapid responses to my raising the point, maybe even a new string on it will be in order, we'll see, but batten down the hatches, BBD and any other Cdn based companies (no matter their nation of origin) are probably going to be taking a beating. I have to even question whether BBD's transit divisions can survive in Canada?
 
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Yup...although the timing raises a few questions, not the least transit providers knowing that with "American only" clauses, costs are going to rise substantially, and perhaps Boston's "just under the wire" reflects that.

Glad to see the two rapid responses to my raising the point, maybe even a new string on it will be in order, we'll see, but batten down the hatches, BBD and any other Cdn based companies (no matter their nation of origin) are probably going to be taking a beating. I have to even question whether BBD's transit divisions can survive?
what % of BBDs train division sales are in America?
 
what % of BBDs train division sales are in America?
It's a very good question that will make for good discussion later, but already their subway cars are built (assembled really) in the US.
http://www.bombardier.com/en/transportation/products-services/wemovecities-newyork.html
http://www.bombardier.com/en/worldwide-presence/country.united-states.html

Which raises a touchy question for this forum: What if BBD pulled up stakes here in Canada, at least for their Rail/Transit division, and then decides to supply Canada from the US? There's a number of die-hard supporters accepting every excuse they come up with for late deliveries. Those excusers might change their tune when the allegiance to the Greenback enters the picture.

Of course, at that point, Made in Canada might be the recourse, but let's burn that bridge when we come to it.

Edit to Add:
Watch for this facility to be offered even more US taxpayer support:
Built in New York, by New Yorkers
Nearly 4,000 rail vehicles have been built in Bombardier’s rail car manufacturing complex in Plattsburgh, New York. State-of-the-art manufacturing processes as well as a comprehensive testing facility ensure that all vehicles are fully tested for performance and environmental compliance before leaving the site.

Does anyone honestly believe that BBD is any more devoted nationally than an 'escort' is to love?

PPS: Canada's deal with the EU (CETA) takes on much greater importance on supplying the Cdn rail and transit market. It very well may be cheaper and more efficient to supply Cdn orders directly from the EU, not even doing assembly here, but taking 'industrial offest' instead, so that delivered vehicles arrive when promised, are thoroughly tested at the same facility they are designed and built at and remain 'state of the art' rather than 'last decade's production line moved to Canada to serve the (lagging) Cdn market'.

This is developing into a topic of its own, and I'm impressed that it is. More comments welcome, and I'll start digging on TO's % content question.
 
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what % of BBDs train division sales are in America?
Less than 10% if you are including subway cars. If not, then a drop in the bucket.

As for Boston order and I stand to be corrected, the shells are to be made in China and ship to the new plant in Mass where all the remaining parts are to be assembly for the car there to meet the 60% plus Buy America clause plus Mass requirement for jobs.

Since we don't have buy Canada anymore, it could be cheaper to buy full assembly rolling stock off shore and ship it here like a lot of countries around the world including Australia do.

Lets put the question this way: What percentage of NA sales goes to Canada for BBD???
 
Lets put the question this way: What percentage of NA sales goes to Canada for BBD???
I put this quote first as it sets up the rest. You are absolutely right to rephrase the question, because that's going to be a bleeding sore getting picked until raw in the next little while. Trump is a thug, and likely to start with the nation even more vulnerable to bullying than Mexico, and that's Canada. Some may argue with that, but events will prove that claim correct in the next little while due to Mexico being far better placed to shift production to export oversees. That's another topic I'll go into perhaps in another string if it opens on this subject.
As for Boston order and I stand to be corrected, the shells are to be made in China and ship to the new plant in Mass where all the remaining parts are to be assembly for the car there to meet the 60% plus Buy America clause plus Mass requirement for jobs.
Your standing to be corrected leaves your point intact. As they cut China out of the picture, so goes Canada. This is "jobs for Americans" and every time the excuse of China comes up, anyone else not American will be collateral to the damage. This means investment into US factories, so even if Canada isn't the intended target, we get hit anyway. Companies like BBD will pull up roots and relocate to the US rather than try and keep non-productive lines in Canada.

Since we don't have buy Canada anymore
Actually we do! And it remains a trade irritant when Cdns scream about the "Buy American" clauses, since not only do provinces and municipalities have it, (sometimes to the exclusion of other munis and provinces), so do the Feds...and *Crown Corporations*! (CBC, Via, etc). That fact makes it difficult bringing WTO action against the US. That being stated, watch for this to become far more pronounced and virulent in the next while as things get nasty with Trump...and that includes a surcharge on Cdn heavy oil! (Wait until the Neos go ballistic on it, those that live by the oily sword, die by the oily sword). Your point is taken though, this is going to get nasty fast...and the Brexit Brits think Trump is their saviour! Turkeys at Thanksgiving have a better chance at living...

it could be cheaper to buy full assembly rolling stock off shore and ship it here like a lot of countries around the world including Australia do.
Yup, that is pretty much what CETA will bring, and if there is any 'custom' on the item, it will be much easier to do it with 'offset' (the supplier builds something else other than the item being purchased in the acquiring nation). This is already being done with incredibly pricey items like fighter aircraft, highly technical equipment, etc. Oz is a bit more complicated than as stated, Melbourne, for instance, chafed with the last tram order being made completely off-shore, the next tranche are to be Ozzie assembled, but this is where CETA will change Canada's situation with Europe in a way that the US won't have.

I think we both agree that BBD's claim that the new Millhaven (Kingston) plant will "supply all of North Am for LRVs" is manic at best. It does not bode well for BBD making good on the latest claims for delivery dates of Cdn built Flexities.
 
Come one, come all...............Place your bits and dates as to when 4431 will arrive as well 4470.

Place your bit if TTC will do anything regarding the failure rate come car 4452

Place your bit how many free cars TTC will received if the order is completed in 2019

So much for TTC claim that they would have 4431 here this week
 
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