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TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

drum118

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4458 has reenter service on June 26 on route 509 after arriving June 7
 

drum118

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4460 has finally been off loaded.

Just spent a day riding Zurich BBD Cobra trams, time to scrap the Fixity order and get the Cobra. Pure 100% lowfloor with no step up seats over wheels and better seating arrangement. Very large area for stroller/Wheelchair with as many as 5 stroller in that area at one time.

The Cobra are 43m 7 section single end cab.

The trams almost look like the old fleet style looks.

They are on most route that I have seen so far as either based on the 70 been order with final delivery in 2024 at 17 per year. Another 40 to come 2025-27.

The old fleet is close 36 years old that saw a rebuilt in 2018 with new paint job. They will be replace as more new cars arrive or the need to scrap them sooner.
 

EastYorkTTCFan

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Just spent a day riding Zurich BBD Cobra trams, time to scrap the Fixity order and get the Cobra. Pure 100% lowfloor with no step up seats over wheels and better seating arrangement. Very large area for stroller/Wheelchair with as many as 5 stroller in that area at one time.
Ok, so you liked them maybe they didn't qualify for the standards that the TTC set out for streetcars in Toronto. Many factors went into the design of the vehicle design and not just them being 100% low floor. For example, the requirements for them have to be able to run on a steep grade of 8% if there are none in Zurich that steep then they probably wouldn't be of use in Toronto,
 

drum118

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Ok, so you liked them maybe they didn't qualify for the standards that the TTC set out for streetcars in Toronto. Many factors went into the design of the vehicle design and not just them being 100% low floor. For example, the requirements for them have to be able to run on a steep grade of 8% if there are none in Zurich that steep then they probably wouldn't be of use in Toronto,
Route 6 is about 10 times or more than Bathurst Hill and none of the 2 different long cars trams have any issues climbing the hill or going done. They go down a lot faster than the old fleet that I rode back in 2012 that were used on the line.

Regardless if its Cobra or Flexity, the interior of the Flexity .needs to be redesign to match the interior.
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drum118

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By the look of things, 4461 was off loaded on Monday and at the Barns now

4460 is still tracking in Pickering

Only 5 more cars to be shipped back to TTC.
 

nfitz

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4460 has finally been off loaded.

4460 is still tracking in Pickering

I don''t seen any data from 4460 since 5 days ago, before your first post.

<body copyright="All data copyright Toronto Transit Commission 2022.">
<vehicle id="4460" lat="43.7969129" lon="-79.1492097" secsSinceReport="512439" predictable="false" heading="49" speedKmHr="18"/>
</body>
 

drum118

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4459 has reenter service on 504 at 6:44 am. Its now 2330 my time.

The car was off loaded June 7.

4463 was off loaded July 18.

4462 was sitting in Lambton yard on July 18 and looks like it still there.

4460 has turn out to be out of data in reporting location and car not on TTC property.

4466 was supposed to be the 67 car to be shipped to Quebec for repairs, but it is will not be going after all.

4461 has yet to show up and its GPS was giving out wrong data when I reported it.
 

Northern Light

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4460 has finally been off loaded.

Just spent a day riding Zurich BBD Cobra trams, time to scrap the Fixity order and get the Cobra. Pure 100% lowfloor with no step up seats over wheels and better seating arrangement. Very large area for stroller/Wheelchair with as many as 5 stroller in that area at one time.

The Cobra are 43m 7 section single end cab.

The trams almost look like the old fleet style looks.

They are on most route that I have seen so far as either based on the 70 been order with final delivery in 2024 at 17 per year. Another 40 to come 2025-27.

The old fleet is close 36 years old that saw a rebuilt in 2018 with new paint job. They will be replace as more new cars arrive or the need to scrap them sooner.

For practical purposes, does the TTC have a length limit for streetcar/LRT vehicles?

I'm thinking about stop lengths, including at stations, where the TTC standard is to be able to hold 2 vehicles fully within the station at each platform.

I took a quick look at the Broadview, and even if you extended the loop tracks into the adjacent Green P, given the need for turning radii I don't think the Dundas track could hold 2 43M vehicles.

For Main Stn (image below) that would put the eastern turn for both buses and streetcars out onto the adjacent road (Barrington)

1658958722806.png


Bathurst, below, would also require property acquisition:

1658958865789.png


I won't go on..................I do know Cobra's do/did come in shorter lengths, though I can't seem to find anyone running models under 36M which would still likely involve considerable modifications to infrastructure.
 

DSC

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4459 has reenter service on 504 at 6:44 am. Its now 2330 my time.

The car was off loaded June 7.

4463 was off loaded July 18.

4462 was sitting in Lambton yard on July 18 and looks like it still there.

4460 has turn out to be out of data in reporting location and car not on TTC property.

4466 was supposed to be the 67 car to be shipped to Quebec for repairs, but it is will not be going after all.

4461 has yet to show up and its GPS was giving out wrong data when I reported it.
Why is 4466 not going for repair? Was it actually welded properly?
 

T3G

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I don't support scrapping the order for the Flexitys. We already have a design compatible with Toronto's requirements and an extant production line, any new tram that we would order would have to be redesigned specially for us and because of the special nature of the design they'd likely have to retool any existing production line, which would delay our new cars and likely inflate the price. Not to mention the fact that if the fleet is 100% Flexitys, it will be much easier to deal with parts and training.

For better or worse, we are stuck with the Flexity design (I personally do not have many issues with them as a passenger). We need to make do with what we have instead of being Torontonian about it and reinventing the wheel.
 

drum118

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Why is 4466 not going for repair? Was it actually welded properly?
No idea why not other than what TTC has said. Could be it was better built or TTC decided it was ok.
 

drum118

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For practical purposes, does the TTC have a length limit for streetcar/LRT vehicles?

I'm thinking about stop lengths, including at stations, where the TTC standard is to be able to hold 2 vehicles fully within the station at each platform.

I took a quick look at the Broadview, and even if you extended the loop tracks into the adjacent Green P, given the need for turning radii I don't think the Dundas track could hold 2 43M vehicles.

For Main Stn (image below) that would put the eastern turn for both buses and streetcars out onto the adjacent road (Barrington)

View attachment 416491

Bathurst, below, would also require property acquisition:

View attachment 416492

I won't go on..................I do know Cobra's do/did come in shorter lengths, though I can't seem to find anyone running models under 36M which would still likely involve considerable modifications to infrastructure.
By right, all TTC stops need to be about 400 meters apart as well at transit crossings. This includes buses. It also time to stop the whiners about having short distance to walk to a stop than is not needed in the first place.

At some point, TTC is going to longer cars to handle ridership increase with either 36 or 42 m cars as it becomes more expensive to have more driver on the route as well cars.

There will be locations at loops where only one car can fit.

The big issue will be cars blocking cross streets when traffic is blocking the streetcar

At the same time, need to address seating layout as there are better layouts out there.
 

nfitz

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I was responding to Drum's post where he said "Just spent a day riding Zurich BBD Cobra trams, time to scrap the Fixity order and get the Cobra."
You'd think he'd know better.

That post was TLDR, and I didn't think he'd be the source of such comments. (given the gross inaccuracies of so many of his statements, and that he ignores requests to clarify his quantifications, I've only been skimming his posts.

One might argue that 60 might be overkill without a commitment to Waterfront services - but it's very clear that we need many of those new cars. Cancelling the orders would be as dumb as when Metrolinx cancelled many of their Flexities - and greatly increased their purchase price per unit. TTC wouldn't make such a fiscally incompetent move at this stage.
 
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