TTC Fleet Procurement Strategy - 2022

[DSC]

Is there a chance of choosing more than one manufacturer. I don’t know about other bus brands on the system but I doubt they are all the same?

No doubt they could chose all three 'testees' (or none) BUT there are major complications in having too many models to service and keep spares for. Until they have several hundred e-buses I anticipate only one model but .....

 

[W. K. Lis]

Wonder what the expected lifespans of the "buses" will be. Diesel buses have a third or less than streetcars or subway trains. The old trolley buses had about the same lifespan as streetcars, almost. We'll see what the all electric battery buses will be.

 

[APTA-2048]

They aren't buying electric in this proposal; they are buying hybrid-electric.

The report requests authority to buy from one, the other, or both makers of said technology.

a. Negotiation of an acceptable agreement, satisfactory to the TTC Chief Executive Officer and General Counsel, with the one or both of the only two qualified suppliers of hybrid-electric buses compliant with Transport Canada’s Commercial Motor Vehicle Safety Standards

Decision on all-electric will be made later, post-testing.

Either New Flyer or Nova Bus. Based on past procurements, Nova Bus appears to be the one that’s best best positioned to be awarded the order. But nothing is certain.

Nova Bus also now offers a long range battery-electric bus powered by BAE Systems. Some of the components are shared with the BAE Systems Nova Bus hybrids the TTC recently got. It wouldn’t surprise me if they end up testing the long range Nova Bus LFSe+ some time in the future.

 

[11th]

Missing are the "vehicles" needed for the "Ontario Line".

Metrolinx will be the one placing the order, based on what we've seen for Finch West and Eglinton.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Metrolinx will be the one placing the order, based on what we've seen for Finch West and Eglinton.

Competitive orders may delay shipments, or requiring looking at other manufactures.

 

[Bordercollie]

This is pretty interesting. The Ajax Pickering Transit Authority and Oakville Transit tried similar systems in the 2000s. Nothing proceeded past the trials.

This technology is currently in use in heavy duty trucks and seems to be successful in reducing emissions and a more full combustion system.

 

[MetroMan]

Removing the fabric seating seems to be shortsighted and in contradiction of the scientific evidence. It’s been shown that SARS-CoV-2 doesn’t remain active on fabrics for very long. It does however like shiny surfaces like metals and plastics. Presumably, they’d replace the fabric seats with all plastic which is exactly the opposite of making them safer. This decision appears to depend on regular cleaning which will only happen at best at the terminal of each route, but more likely just a few times a day. Many passengers will get on and off those seats many times in between cleanings.

 

[turini2]

Great idea offering the subway train contract for Line 1 and Line 2 to the province like that - "hey, we'll do the legwork and the lawyering around getting a good deal, and you give us the cash for trains you'd need to purchase anyway for the Yonge North and Scarborough Subway. Deal?"

Question - they talk about rebuilding Hillcrest for "25 of the 60 additional streetcars" and that "existing facilities can accommodate 13 streetcars"... is there enough yard space for all 60? My quick maths is that you'd be looking for 30 or so spots?

Would they expand Leslie Barns - use the existing car parking space for yard space instead? Would they buy a plot of land for a new storage yard - e.g. just with a washer and an basic office, no heavy maintenance etc? The other carhouses look pretty constrained tbh...

 

[Allandale25]

Steve's take:

TTC Proposes Massive Fleet Plan

At its meeting on October 22, the TTC Board will consider a report setting out plans to purchase new buses, streetcars, subway trains and Wheel-Trans vans in coming years. TTC Fleet Procurement Str…

stevemunro.ca

 

[M II A II R II K]

So Line 1 could get the new trains where Line 2 gets the TR hand me downs, particularly if the new trains are built to have 7 cars to start off with.

 

[daniel_kryz]

So Line 1 could get the new trains where Line 2 gets the TR hand me downs, particularly if the new trains are built to have 7 cars to start off with.

Actually, the plan is to buy 80 new subway trains for Line 2.

 

[Northern Light]

Great idea offering the subway train contract for Line 1 and Line 2 to the province like that - "hey, we'll do the legwork and the lawyering around getting a good deal, and you give us the cash for trains you'd need to purchase anyway for the Yonge North and Scarborough Subway. Deal?"

Question - they talk about rebuilding Hillcrest for "25 of the 60 additional streetcars" and that "existing facilities can accommodate 13 streetcars"... is there enough yard space for all 60? My quick maths is that you'd be looking for 30 or so spots?

Would they expand Leslie Barns - use the existing car parking space for yard space instead? Would they buy a plot of land for a new storage yard - e.g. just with a washer and an basic office, no heavy maintenance etc? The other carhouses look pretty constrained tbh...

From Steve's commentary:

The TTC estimates that the system can accommodate 60 more cars in total with the capacity of existing carhouses (+35) and conversion of part of Harvey Shops at Hillcrest for carhouse use (+25). This would allow operation of the 512 St. Clair route from a depot much closer to the route.

 

[Northern Light]

Removing the fabric seating seems to be shortsighted and in contradiction of the scientific evidence. It’s been shown that SARS-CoV-2 doesn’t remain active on fabrics for very long. It does however like shiny surfaces like metals and plastics. Presumably, they’d replace the fabric seats with all plastic which is exactly the opposite of making them safer. This decision appears to depend on regular cleaning which will only happen at best at the terminal of each route, but more likely just a few times a day. Many passengers will get on and off those seats many times in between cleanings.

No decision has yet been made.

I agree w/you that going to 'hard surface' seats is not in any way beneficial vis a vis Covid and would in fact make the system less comfortable and attractive.

Though I do wonder if they were considering Vinyl as an alternative.

Either way, make your objections known!

 

[Northern Light]

Something I missed in my first reading, that's of interest:

Lastly, the CIP identified the need to replace the existing fixed block signalling system on Line 4 with ATC in order to enable deployment of 6-car consists, matching capacity long-term ridership demand - this program is currently unfunded.

The TTC is musing about upgrading the Sheppard Line to handle full-length trains.

That would require spending some $$$ on the stations!

 

[nfitz]

That would require spending some $$$ on the stations!

Some $, but probably a lot less than the ATC. Knock down some non-structural cinder-block walls, and some new finishes. Nothing of significant expense.

With the current 6-minute service at peak, unchanged since opening, I don't see this happening this decade.