TTC: Efficiency improvements instead of fare increases

[kEiThZ]

right ....

You know what I was referring to and you're being dishonest to spin it. There aren't many 50 year old privates but there are tons of military personnel in their 40s who face significantly worse risk of injury. And the military goes to great lengths to rehabilitate them and retrain them. What it does not do, is create an easy job to stick them in for perpetuity just because they can't drive (and it's not like being a tank driver is an easy gig). If we can rehabilitate these guys who suffer injuries from an IED strike and gainfully employ them in a role more than counting change, I am sure a large organization like the TTC can do it.

 

[nfitz]

If we can rehabilitate these guys who suffer injuries from an IED strike and gainfully employ them in a role more than counting change, I am sure a large organization like the TTC can do it.

And perhaps you can tell us what the army does with 50 and 60-year old retrained privates?

 

[kEiThZ]

And perhaps you can tell us what the army does with 50 and 60-year old retrained privates?

Office work. Maintenace...ie retrain as admin assistants, vehicle techs, electronics techs, lab techs, clerks, etc. Whatever job overcomes their disability but keeps them productive. Lots of those booth operators look like they could do more than collect change.

 

[kEiThZ]

Heck, why not farm them out to other city departments. That's something that the CF does for personnel who get released. It trains them for another government of Canada position if they must be released. They'd make less with their new job but they still have a job and a spot opens up for a more capable individual.

 

[kEiThZ]

The point here is there are other ways. And its unfair to the taxpayer that operators expect to keep their 52 000 per year paycheque even when they aren't operating. You would not find too many employers who have that kind of generosity beyond a few months. That's what medical plans, pensions and worker's comp are for.

 

[kettal]

Outsorcing... does it really lead to better efficiency? Aren't Mississauga's outsourced bus drivers paid more than TTC operators?

Sometimes I think the real motivation behind outsourcing is so when something goes wrong you can shift the blame to someone else.

 

[nfitz]

Office work. Maintenace...ie retrain as admin assistants, vehicle techs, electronics techs, lab techs, clerks, etc. Whatever job overcomes their disability but keeps them productive. Lots of those booth operators look like they could do more than collect change.

Now your just making stuff up ... you well know that very few military personal are still serving at the age of 50 - many serving only a 3-year term.

 

[kEiThZ]

Now your just making stuff up ... you well know that very few military personal are still serving at the age of 50 - many serving only a 3-year term.

As a sering military member I'd disagree with your asessment. This isn't the US. And we don't have 3 year enlistments. The militar retirement age is 60. And we get tons of personnel who stay in till then. They aren't all doing patrols in Afghanistan but they aren't counting change either.

 

[kEiThZ]

Outsorcing... does it really lead to better efficiency? Aren't Mississauga's outsourced bus drivers paid more than TTC operators?

Sometimes I think the real motivation behind outsourcing is so when something goes wrong you can shift the blame to someone else.

i'd agree. Outsourcing is done to either shift risks or costs. The TTC might save on risks but not necessarily on costs.

 

[nfitz]

As a sering military member I'd disagree with your asessment. This isn't the US. And we don't have 3 year enlistments.

Bull - From the Armed Forces FAQ "Officers will commit for between three and nine years, depending on the occupation and the entry plan, and Non-Commissioned Members for three years".

Besides, the Canadian forces is hardly a hallmark of efficiency, over 90,000 active and reserve personal, and how many can we put in the field? They are struggling to keep 3,500 deployed in the field! TTC has more front-line staff than that!

 

[kEiThZ]

Meh, yet I've haven't met anyone with a three year tab. But your original point was that most people get out after three years. They don't. Very few people only serve for their initial engagement. Terms of service are usually 9 years. Far longer than the initial enagagement. And most serve for at least one term. Aside from that, how is that relevant to a comparison to the TTC? If anything, it hurts the CF if trained personnel get out. As for efficiency, you do know that not we have a combined armed forces with three services in one organization. Are you suggesting we send Naval Signalmen on patrols in Afghanistan? Beyond that an armed forces is made up of more than combat personnel. They need technicians, cooks, intelligence analysts, etc. Suggesting they aren't efficient because everyone and their dog isn'y carrying a rifle in the field is rather ignorant. For what they do the CF remains one of the most efficient yet overtasked forces in the world. Reams of testimony to Parliament would assert that. Lastly, the CF is fielding a force thousands of miles from home and they are in combat. That obviously means you can't sustain 100% all the time. What's the TTC's excuse? I know the Malvern bus garage is far away but is it two continents and two oceans away? And I know there's some violent crime in TO but are you suggesting it's worse than rural Kandahar?

 

[kEiThZ]

Anyway, nfitz it's a nice diversion by you to suggest miliatry personnel are lazy and inefficient while defending what are essentially union mandated practices (or surely involve some collusion by the union) by the TTC that result in worse services for Toronotonians. I have merely suggested that if the military can rehab it's personnel from far worse injuries to be useful workers, surely the TTC can get more than fare collection out of its injured personnel. Notice, I am not one of those who say they get paid too much. For driving a bus, or running a streetcar or a subway train, their pay is adequate. What is indefensible to me is that the TTC has created a position with very low requirements to let 'injured' personnel (who for the most part look to the rest of us to be able to do more than collect change) perform with very little oversight or expectations. Why not at least train them to provide customer service? I wouldn't begrudge the booth jockey's their pay as much if they actually provided service. I look at the smartly dressed staff at subways in Munich or Vienna who provide tourist info, dish out maps, advice on how to navigate the complex fare systems, often speak foreign languages, etc. and I wonder if we are really getting value for money here. If they want to be booth monkeys, fine. But they should do more than collect change for 52k per year.

 

[Hipster Duck]

I agree with Chuck, Keith, Whoaccio et al (basically everybody who thinks that cutting redundancies at the TTC is an option to balance the budget).

LA Metro is widely cited by transit scholars as an example of a 'bloated' transit agency in the US and yet they have 2,000 fewer people on their payroll than the TTC. This is despite the fact that LA Metro has a fleet of 2,700 buses (vs. 1,500 for the TTC), has to maintain 120 km of double-tracked electrified rail and serves a county whose physical area (and population) is easily four times the size of the City of Toronto.

There is absolutely no reason for the TTC to maintain its own in-house fleet of Brinks trucks, garbage trucks, janitors, landscapers or poster designers.

 

[nfitz]

But your original point was that most people get out after three years.

No it wasn't. Read above. I said many people, not most. There's a huge difference. Many people die from flu every year; but most don't.

Anyway, nfitz it's a nice diversion by you to suggest miliatry personnel are lazy and inefficient ...

I have no idea what you are talking about here ... I never said anything like that. Nor do I believe that for a second! I don't know what you read that makes you think I said that, but can you point it out, and I will edit, but that is so far from the truth that it's horrifying.

 

[Second_in_pie]

I agree with Hipster.