News   Jul 18, 2019
 216     0 
News   Jul 18, 2019
 440     0 
News   Jul 18, 2019
 250     0 

TTC: Cherry Street reconstruction and streetcar trackage (City of Toronto/TTC, U/C)

drum118

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
13,930
Reaction score
6,273
Location
Mississauga, where cars rule city growth
Seems an odd place to find that announcement ... nothing on TTC or City of Toronto site?
No Kidding. You would think it would be on TTC site, but not there.

At least they are doing the tracks after all compare saying we don't have the money to do it this year.
 

Tulse

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jan 28, 2010
Messages
2,368
Reaction score
430
Is there a great benefit to laying the track and stringing the wires now if they won't be used for three years? Doesn't that just expose the hardware to elements for that time?
 

nfitz

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Messages
23,176
Reaction score
3,306
Location
Toronto
I'm curious, how long will this line be and how long is it suppose to take to build it?
What's currently being constructed is 600 metres long. Essentially it's just a run down Cherry Street, to a loop north of the Lakeshore West tracks. It will be used for some 504 services from Dundas West - probably every second car I'd guess.

Not sure how long ... it's part of a reconstruction of the entire road, and service isn't due until after the Pan Am games (because it is adjacent to the Pan Am village, and won't have much of a purpose until these become condos after the games). However the road is being rebuilt now, so now is when the track is being put in.

In unfunded later phases, it would be extended to Queens Quay East, which would allow service to Union Station, or even to Exhibition Place. During the Portland redevelopment, over the next few decades, there are plans to extend it down Cherry to Commissioners Street and even Unwin Avenue, where service could go to Leslie.
 

drum118

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
13,930
Reaction score
6,273
Location
Mississauga, where cars rule city growth
What's currently being constructed is 600 metres long. Essentially it's just a run down Cherry Street, to a loop north of the Lakeshore West tracks. It will be used for some 504 services from Dundas West - probably every second car I'd guess.

Not sure how long ... it's part of a reconstruction of the entire road, and service isn't due until after the Pan Am games (because it is adjacent to the Pan Am village, and won't have much of a purpose until these become condos after the games). However the road is being rebuilt now, so now is when the track is being put in.

In unfunded later phases, it would be extended to Queens Quay East, which would allow service to Union Station, or even to Exhibition Place. During the Portland redevelopment, over the next few decades, there are plans to extend it down Cherry to Commissioners Street and even Unwin Avenue, where service could go to Leslie.
Add to your comment.
The 2nd phase if it stay the course, will see the line go south to a loop at shipping channel on a new Cherry St that will connect to the unfunded QQ E line.

If the plans don't change, Commissioners St will disappears between the Don Parkway and Cherry St with a new LRT line and road been used north of it to get to a loop east of the Don Parkway on Commissioners St before going over to Leslie at a later date.

Some 20+ years, the Cherry St line will go south to Unwin and then over to Leslie.

There is still the vision to run the Boardview line south of Queen St to Commissioners St.

Most of the Leslie line will be in place with the maintenance yard being built where it is now.

With the track work being done now, the poles will be install for the overhead, since they will be used as light post. As for the overhead, that is hard to say, but I expect it will be install now to give TTC the ability to short turn cars if they have too. It would do away with the current short turning at Parliament for the 504. It would allow the 501 to be short turn also in both direction.

As for service, there was a plan to run very limit service (10-20 minutes) from the west until the area was more develop to support every 2nd or 3rd 504 Car either as an Dundas West-Mills Loop line or Dundas West-Mills Loop-Boardview. No service during the Pan AM games. All the new service would be assign a different route number. 519 and 521 numbers come to mind and not sure if the numbers for the various new routes were in any of minutes of the various non public meetings.

The big picture was to see cars leaving the Boardview Station and running to the Shipping Channel as well Union station and the Ex. There was also the loop to the Ex that bypass Union 100%.

Anything going south of the new loop depends on what is going to happen with the current underpass bridge. Even if the plan QQ E line was in place by 2013, the current bridge is the bottle neck now and then with no service connection.
 

smallspy

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Nov 27, 2009
Messages
3,527
Reaction score
2,263
It will be used for some 504 services from Dundas West - probably every second car I'd guess.
Do you have a source for that? No one has been able to get an answer out of Service Planning about a form that the service may take when it opens, including Steve Munro.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 

nfitz

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Messages
23,176
Reaction score
3,306
Location
Toronto
Do you have a source for that? No one has been able to get an answer out of Service Planning about a form that the service may take when it opens, including Steve Munro.
Nothing recent ... we discussed further up the thread, and in the PICs for the EA, they discussed how it would work initially as a branch of the King service. As this would surely be to downtown, then presumably it would start at Dundas West.

Throughout the day, many 504s heading east are short-turned on a very long loop (in both directions) up Parliament, Dundas East, Broadview. I'd assume they'd formalize this, to provide regular service to Cherry. There's been some hearsay of them at some point providing a service from Cherry Loop to Broadview station ...

Who knows what they might think up by Day 1. I have a hard time seeing how a service from Cherry west down King, is going to be very regular. Perhaps someone will think outside the box.
 

CapitalSeven

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 25, 2007
Messages
771
Reaction score
204
I've alwasy thought it would make more sense to have half of the Spadina cars, instead of short turning at King, go down King and turn at Cherry loop.
 

drum118

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
13,930
Reaction score
6,273
Location
Mississauga, where cars rule city growth
I've alwasy thought it would make more sense to have half of the Spadina cars, instead of short turning at King, go down King and turn at Cherry loop.
It make more sense to send more cars south of King now than what is, based on the growth of ridership and calls for it.

It would take too long to send the 510 to Cherry St.

All I know now, what type of service that will be used to service this area will be different from what was talked about during the EA process as well at all the meetings at 20 Bay St on the 13th floor for Waterfront Toronto by our group monthly or more between public meetings until the plan was approved. TTC was at all of these meetings, as well representatives from all City levels and Ward councilors, including the design 8 under Waterfront Toronto leadership.

TTC budget will play a major role as well the new LRV's for service level. Time will tell what the service will be like and when.
 

Jonny5

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Nov 23, 2007
Messages
2,621
Reaction score
365
Throughout the day, many 504s heading east are short-turned on a very long loop (in both directions) up Parliament, Dundas East, Broadview. I'd assume they'd formalize this, to provide regular service to Cherry.
Many is an understatement. There is often 10 cars in this loop, out of serivce, at rush hour. It must be the biggest waste of resources in the entire streetcar network. The switch north from King at Parliament is even manual. It sometimes takes three light cycles to get a car through as the operator has to get out and pry the switch open, then turn the streetcar, then walk back and pry the switch closed again!

I remember there used to be a loop right at the corner of Parliament and King, where the Porsche dealership is now. That dealership was previously one block south, in the building that will now become the Frist Paliament visitor centre. IIRC the TTC went into some kind of land swap 5 or 6 years ago where they gave up the Parliament loop to obtain the parking lot on Broadview, just north of Queen, to build a new loop there. But they have never actually built it and we are stuck with the ridiculous time suck we have now until Cherry opens.
 
Last edited:

nfitz

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Messages
23,176
Reaction score
3,306
Location
Toronto
Many is an understatement.
I was trying to be kind; I frequently change cars from 506 to 504 at Broadview/Gerrard,and often end up walking to Dundas, and catching a 504 entering service there (or more often than not, standing at the light, unable to cross, and watching it go past :) )

While the Cherry looping may be more efficient, it does nothing to help the service on Broadview, or on King east of Sumac, where all those new condos are being built - it will actually reduce service. Hopefully the operation will take this into account.
 

W. K. Lis

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Dec 24, 2007
Messages
14,756
Reaction score
3,792
Location
Toronto, ON, CAN, Terra, Sol, Milky Way
Cherry Street LRT? Shouldn't it be Cherry Street streetcar?

Will the spacing of the stops be similar to the Spadina streetcar, St. Clair Streetcar, or Sheppard East LRT? Will it be rapid or just faster because the streetcars will be on their own right-of-way? If it is to be used by the short-turning of existing streetcar lines, then it should be the Cherry Street streetcar on their own right-of-way.
 

nfitz

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Messages
23,176
Reaction score
3,306
Location
Toronto
LRT is a function of the technology used, not the speed. They will be using LRVs on this line ... just like they use on 501, 502, 503 ... surely if they are using Light Rail Vehicles (LRV) then this is Light Rail Transit (LRT).

TTC has been using the LRV and LRT nomenclature for streetcars for years. And it would appear from this announcement, they still do.
 

Platform 27

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jun 24, 2009
Messages
756
Reaction score
29
LRT is a function of the technology used, not the speed. They will be using LRVs on this line ... just like they use on 501, 502, 503 ... surely if they are using Light Rail Vehicles (LRV) then this is Light Rail Transit (LRT).

TTC has been using the LRV and LRT nomenclature for streetcars for years. And it would appear from this announcement, they still do.
Yes. And they're wrong, and they shouldn't, and the 20+ years of history of trying to brand all or part of the existing streetcar network as "LRT" is a huge part of why Transit City had such a hard time (and continues to have such a hard time) getting accepted as not being a "streetcar"
 

Top