TTC Blue Night Network Service Upgrades

[299 bloor call control.]

all night subway service can't happen until Automatic Train Control is installed at the earliest, and even then will be a challenge.

 

[doady]

IMO, the TTC should not even provide regular service on Steeles, let alone overnight service.

Okay, is there anywhere else in Ontario (heck, anywhere in Canada) where a bus route runs every 3-4 minutes during rush hour? (Edit: Other than the Ottawa Transitway routes?)

If you include express service then, in the 905, Yonge is average 4 minutes, Hurontario 4.25 minutes and Dundas 4.5 minutes. If these suburban corridors can can get service like that then 3-4 minute service in some REAL cities in Canada is not that far-fetched. Surely Montreal and Vancouver has some. Hamilton's Main/King/Beeline routes combined are probably 3-4 minutes as well.

 

[299 bloor call control.]

IMO, the TTC should not even provide regular service on Steeles, let alone overnight service.

What on earth is your rationale behind that??

 

[W. K. Lis]

I think it is because the taxpayers of the City of Toronto are subsiding the migrates from York Region and Peel Region who use the TTC. The SmartCard system the TTC is thinking about should have some sort of residential requirement where if you live outside of Toronto, you have to pay more.

 

[JasonParis]

I think both sides of Steeles are considered Toronto and are thereby serviced by TTC, TPS, Toronto Works, etc. York Region begins after the curb so to speak.

 

[smuncky]

I think it is because the taxpayers of the City of Toronto are subsiding the migrates from York Region and Peel Region who use the TTC. The SmartCard system the TTC is thinking about should have some sort of residential requirement where if you live outside of Toronto, you have to pay more.

that's a great first step to try and elinimate the border between transit agencies.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

IMO, the TTC should not even provide regular service on Steeles, let alone overnight service.

YRT would be overwhelmed picking up the Steeles routes, but, on the bright side, YRT's ridership figures would automatically double. I don't think the TTC would want to lose the revenue from 17 million annual rides, though, some of which is 'stolen' from YRT.

 

[DENTROBATE54]

^ Furthermore no one wants to pay a double fare. The majority of those in the Steeles catchment will want Toronto and the subway when commuting, hence it makes sense to keep things TTC. Once I walked from Bathurst/Clark to Steeles just to save a fare and it took me 20 minutes.

 

[doady]

^ If you live in the 905 then you should be paying a double fare.

Yes, there is a lot of revenue from Steeles buses but also much more expenses, so the TTC is still losing money.

 

[Chuck]

If you live in the 905 then you should be paying a double fare.

Wow, a comment straight out of the 1920s.

Fare by distance, right across the GTA, is the only way to go. If your trip is 10km, it shouldn't matter where you start, where you finish, or what colour buses you end up using along the way. Same distance, same fare. And if your trip is 20km, it should cost twice as much.

Look at what we have created. When I lived in Thornhill and was going to school, I'd often get a ride to the express stop at Bayview and Steeles. You'd sometimes see as much as one person per minute getting out of a southbound car and walking toward the bus stop. This was repeated at Bathurst, Don Mills, Markham Road, Yonge...you name it. The same car would then turn around at the gas station, and head back up north, which means that was a completely unnecessary car trip on an already clogged road.

We would then squeeze into the doorway of a TTC bus packed beyond belief, while at the same time a YRT Bayview bus that originated steps from our homes a few kilometres to the north would speed by almost empty. Absolutely ridiculous. Unless Metrolinx addresses this, it will end up being nothing more than an extra layer of useless bureaucracy.

 

[unimaginative2]

Completely agree, Chuck. A fare-zone system is so obvious. Even if the politics dictate starting it at the municipal boundary, it shouldn't instantly be a double fare when you cross Steeles.

Spadina down to Queens Quay is such a no-brainer. I'd like to see something along Queens Quay, too. There are thousands upon thousands of people living on the waterfront, and the nearest east-west night bus is all the way up at Queen.

 

[RedRocket191]

I believe that the longer your trip the more you should pay, but consider this:

Transit ridership in the suburbs is poor compared to transit ridership in the city. If we want to encourage more people to take long distance trips by transit, then we need a fare policy that encourages that.

Not everyone can afford to live close to where they work, so its not equitable to only reward people who can afford to live a "short commute" lifestyle. Strict fare-by-distance fails from this perspective.

We shouldn't have fares double, but we should have gradual increases. Also, fares should be the same within municipal boundaries. You should be able to travel anywhere within your city for one flat fare - again, out of equity.

I propose that we keep the fare zones we have now, reduce the fare to cross the border to a single dollar, and give you X hours of unlimited travel (with a fresh X hours when you pay the dollar upgrade).

Alternatively, we can move to a fare-by-time scheme, where one fare gets you X hours of travel anywhere, and the next X hours is charged.

 

[unimaginative2]

Those are good points. I think that the most obvious and immediate first step is introducing timed transfers for the TTC. I've spoken to dozens of people who think that it would more than double the number of trips they take on transit. It would be good for shops, too, since people could visit several on one fare. It would be way more useful as a ridership growth strategy than anything else.

Fare zones would be best designed on the German model. Perhaps every second arterial road could be used as a boundary. The lowest fare allows you travel in two zones (to avoid punishing people who live on a boundary).

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Yes, there is a lot of revenue from Steeles buses but also much more expenses, so the TTC is still losing money.

Pretty much everything "loses money," but, unlike a very low ridership route, the TTC would *want* to lose money on the Steeles buses to access the revenue pool from 17 million annual rides.

 

[JasonParis]

Spadina down to Queens Quay is such a no-brainer. I'd like to see something along Queens Quay, too. There are thousands upon thousands of people living on the waterfront, and the nearest east-west night bus is all the way up at Queen.

I agree, but how would the issue of Spadina and Union (if it goes that far) be addressed? If it was a streetcar, I suppose it would have to let people off one stop prior to Union and one stop prior to Spadina (and the streetcar would turn around in the station empty). If it's a bus, then it would have to turn around in the Spadina bus loop and somewhere else on Queen's Quay (as busses can't enter the Union Station loop).