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TTC: Bloor Danforth Line 2 West Extension(s)

Unearthing the Roots of Urban Sprawl: A Critical Analysis of Form, Function and Methodology
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This opinion piece uses primarily the US (and a little UK) as the basis of example. Well, most US cities have seen a hollowing out of the core with usually the lower income families staying in the inner city. Well, this trend has not happened in Canada, with development happening downtown. The evidence of this is the building of the skydome/ACC downtown, when in the states, there is more tendency to build this out of the city limits. Also, with the exception of NYC, and the hyper investment of latin americans in Miami, more people are attracted to living downtown in Canada, vs. the undersirableness of living downtown, as the study points out, in a lot of US cities.

They discuss the drivers of sprawl being ease of transportation and quality of life issues (american example), but they do touch upon a little on what I am saying. The growth has been left unabated by politicans which has left the fight against sprawl to be ineffective. Which is why I keep on stating the blame is on both parties. People keep on moving out (and continue to do so to low density new subdivisions) and politicans fail to act as they want to get reelected - even though its adding to the $1.8billion deteriment.
 
Don't blame TTC or Toronto for the VCC extension. Blame the province in the form of Greg Sorbara. If Dwight Duncan had kept the finance job maybe the madness would have stopped and so would the subway (at Steeles).
 
Assuming York Region only chips in funding if it goes to the sinkhole, Toronto saves money if the subway goes past Steeles.
 
Umm...the subway was proposed in Dwight Duncan's budget.

I just don't understand the ferocity of the opposition to the Vaughan extension. Not only does it not cost the TTC anything, but it saves them money. York is contributing a disproportionate amount to the cost of the line, and even one additional rider generated by the extension will increase the operating revenue of the line once it enters the City of Toronto.

My pet project is the DRL, but that doesn't mean that I oppose all subway construction until it's built.

There are a number of ways to reduce the cost of the project. I speculate that the TTC staff are trying to inflate the cost projections because they oppose it. Why does the entire route have to be a bored tunnel? Vancouver is saving a fortune by cut-and-covering under Cambie, which is a shop-lined boulevard. Why can't they cut-and-cover under massive suburban arterials and empty land along the York U route? Why on earth does the Sheppard West station need to be built now? It connects with four GO trains a day, no bus routes, and has virtually no businesses or homes in its hinterland. It would be much cheaper to have a dedicated bus timed to connect with the four GO trains shuttling to Downsview. The TTC is willing to spend a hundred million dollars on a station to connect with GO, but it won't adjust its bus times by even a minute to meet GO trains?
 
The subway to VCC was also seriously considered in the TTC's 2002 Rapid Transit Expansion Study, and of all the options studied, it was determined to be the most cost-effective in terms of both capital costs and operating costs.
 
I just don't understand the ferocity of the opposition to the Vaughan extension. Not only does it not cost the TTC anything, but it saves them money. York is contributing a disproportionate amount to the cost of the line, and even one additional rider generated by the extension will increase the operating revenue of the line once it enters the City of Toronto.
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Because it really makes no sense at this point - there are greater needs.
 
Because it really makes no sense at this point - there are greater needs.
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Yes, but they're not going to get built. This isn't a choice between a York/VCC line or finishing Sheppard or a DRL. This is a choice between a York/VCC line and nothing, and nothing seems to me to be quite an unreasonable choice. Besides, even if the money were to be made available for any project the city wanted, they wouldn't build a DRL or anything similar - the busiest routes in the city can best be served by streetcars. The TTC would likely recommend a York U extension.
 
Yes, but they're not going to get built. This isn't a choice between a York/VCC line or finishing Sheppard or a DRL. This is a choice between a York/VCC line and nothing, and nothing seems to me to be quite an unreasonable choice. Besides, even if the money were to be made available for any project the city wanted, they wouldn't build a DRL or anything similar - the busiest routes in the city can best be served by streetcars. The TTC would likely recommend a York U extension.
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That's exactly why people have a problem with it; funding finally comes through but for a politically motivated extension to an area that really doesn't need it.

For the record, I don't think anyone has a problem with an extension to York; it's the VCC that people take issue with.

I'm pretty sure everyone would pick an extension to VCC over nothing at all; but the shortsightedness - that's what has people frustrated.
 
"For the record, I don't think anyone has a problem with an extension to York; it's the VCC that people take issue with"

Based on my understanding of who's paying for what, I'll go on record as being vehemently opposed to a subway that gets extended only to York U.
 
Personally, I would like to see the York Line go west rather then north into Vaughan. It would be much better for the residents of North York and North Etobicoke then the long bus rides to the nearest subway station. But then again, we don't have insider politicians in that area.
 
"Personally, I would like to see the York Line go west rather then north into Vaughan.

That's where the Sheppard line could go - it needs to be extended to Downsview, anyway, for the Spadina line to reach its potential. A Weston branch of the DRL would also be great for the NW part of the city.
 
"Personally, I would like to see the York Line go west rather then north into Vaughan.

That's where the Sheppard line could go - it needs to be extended to Downsview, anyway, for the Spadina line to reach its potential. A Weston branch of the DRL would also be great for the NW part of the city."

Actually the York extension can resolve both these issues should the funds ever become available. First phase extend the Spadina line to VCC then in phase two run above ground along Highway 7 to Kipling (Downtown Woodbridge) before veering down Kipling to Albion Mall then across Finch to connect with Humber College. Finally completing its journey down Hwy 27 to serve Woodbine Racetrack, a possible GO connection, the airport vinicity, a possible Eglinton RT, Etobicoke Civic Centre, Cloverdale Mall and finally Sherway Gardens where it connects with the BD line. Remember it runs above ground for the most part so it'd be half the cost of traditonal subways.
 
This is a choice between a York/VCC line and nothing, and nothing seems to me to be quite an unreasonable choice
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Well, the Feds seem to be going with the nothing bit currently. Anyways, I see it otherwise. If this gets built, the purse strings will be even tighter for future Toronto projects, then it already is. I'd rather have nothing, and when a needed project comes up, then they couldn't claim that they did something for us already.
 
Puse strings are based on election cycles... I would take a cookie now rather then hope I could have one latter.

I would expect that we are going to have a federal election in the next 6 - 8 months and the feds are swimming in so much cash that it is hard to hide it. The Vaughan funding will likely come as a goodie at that time.

The province is very pro-subway and infrastructure development. They have long terms plans through ReNew Ontario and Places to Grow to commit extensive funds to subways.

As far as the provincial funding aspect is concerned Vaughan is a done deal. If the feds had not been so slow with their portion (hopefully it'll come soon), the province would have likley considered another cash infussion for the Sheppard extension which passed through Caplan's riding and a couple other key ridings. Due to the Oct 26 fiscal update (basically an attempt to lower expectations) and the lack of federal support the Sheppard funding will likely have to wait until the second mandate...

I would still expect the province if the Liberals win next Oct 4 to fund at least a Sheppard expansion in the next mandate. Their fiscal situation is improving and infrastructure is a cornstone to the planning reform and growth planning exercises they have undertaken the past 3 years.

The question is will the feds and the city come to the table?
 
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