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TTC: Automatic Train Control and Subway Platform Screen Doors

Is this because of accessibility issues?

For the clear aisle? Probably part accessibility for those with mobility devices, part general passenger movement. And I guess there's the potential to be handcuffed onto one lol. But my point is that the open area in the centre is pretty wide to begin with. It's added "capacity" without adding hugely to passenger capacity. In my view at least.
 
So a 7th carriage would be needed to extend capacity, correct?

If the TTC continues to use the standalone car design, yes. They could also go to an articulated design with smaller carbodies, which would require more carbodies but fewer trucks than the current trains.

Not directly related, but I'm of the opinion that with two trains of the same internal square footage - one being shorter and wider the other longer and narrower - that the longer/narrower one could actually carry more. With the width of the T1/TR there seems to be a bit of slightly excess space around the centre that doesn't provide good standing room. Very little to hold onto, and we no longer use centre stanchions, so people naturally gravitate toward the sides. If we shaved off ~25cm for any future line's rolling stock I doubt much capacity would be lost 1:1 with the TR.

The maximum capacity is a function of the square footage of floor space of the vehicle. Two different vehicles with the same floor space will therefore have the same capacity, all else being equal. How much of it is usable, on the other hand, is a different matter.

For the record, my experience on crowded trains contradicts your theory. Not only is it easier to move within a T1 or TR when crush loaded, but there seems to be no shortage of people willing to use the overhead stanchions in the middle of the car, either.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
Subway death renews calls for TTC to install platforms barriers

See link.

It’s a subway rider’s worst nightmare.

Police say a man was killed in a “completely unprovoked attack” Monday morning at Bloor-Yonge station when he was pushed in front of a moving train.

On Tuesday, police identified the victim as 73-year-old Yosuke Hayahara. John Reszetnik, 57, has been charged with first-degree murder.

Such incidents are extremely rare on the TTC, and the agency says the last time someone died by being pushed on the tracks was more than 20 years ago.

But the alleged murder, which occurred two days after a suicide at another station, has revived calls for the TTC to install barriers on subway platforms in order to protect riders.

“Absolutely, I think we should be looking at it,” said Joe Mihevc, a TTC board member and councillor for Ward 21 St. Paul’s.

In 2010, the TTC board approved in principle the installation so-called platform edge doors on Line 1 (Yonge-University-Spadina), but the project has never been funded.

Mihevc and other proponents of the barriers argue they would not only eliminate suicides on the subway, but also prevent lengthy service delays caused by trespassers entering tunnels or debris falling on the track.

The barriers could also make service more efficient by allowing trains to enter crowded stations at full speed, instead of slowing down for safety reasons.

Even at the cost of hundreds of millions of dollars, achieving all of those goals with a single project “is actually pretty cheap,” Mihevc argued.

According to the TTC, 19 people died by suicide on the subway network in 2017, and there were 26 non-fatal suicide attempts. That represents the highest number of suicide deaths on the TTC since 2010, and a significant increase from 2015, when there were just 11 deaths and five attempts.

Each incident not only results in the injury or death of the victim and inflicts trauma on witnesses and transit workers, but brings the subway system to a halt, stranding thousands of passengers. The transit agency says it typically takes between 70 and 90 minutes to get the subway running again after a suicide.

The TTC has previously estimated it would cost about $350 million to retrofit Line 1 with platform edge doors, but the TTC now says they’re likely to be even more expensive, and to outfit the all three subway lines could cost more than $1 billion.

In addition to the expense, there are also technical challenges. The TTC says to ensure the subway doors line up properly with the doors on the platform barriers, the subways would have to be operating under the computerized signalling system called automatic train control (ATC).

The TTC expects to complete installation of ATC on Line 1 by the end of 2019,but there is no firm timeline for installing the system on Line 2 (Bloor-Danforth) or Line 4 (Sheppard).

The agency is conducting a feasibility study about the barriers and plans to release a final report in 2020.

But TTC spokepserson Brad Ross said the agency is already supportive. Platform edge doors are “something that the TTC as an organization has long requested and would like to have,” he said.

While it would be difficult to install them on existing stations, Ross said the TTC would want any future subway line, like the proposed relief line, to include platform doors.

“I don’t think it would make much sense to build a new line like that without them,” he said.

Dr. Mark Sinyor, associate scientist at the Sunnybrook Health Sciences Centre, also supports platform edge doors.

In a study released last year, Sinyor concluded suicide barriers erected on the Bloor St. viaduct in 2003 were successful in saving lives.

Despite the common misconception that someone determined to take their own life would simply find other means to do so if prevented by a barrier, Sinyor said the vast majority of people who experience suicidal thoughts can overcome them and survive, especially if they seek help.

“The barriers make it somewhat easier to do that, in the sense that they might delay or interrupt someone’s suicidal plans and give them the opportunity to go and seek that help,” Sinyor said.

At a news conference Tuesday, Mayor John Tory said the city owes it to “people who are troubled” to seriously consider installing platform doors on the TTC.

“Always the issue that looms out there, and I don’t mean to bring this back to money when you’re dealing with trying to save lives, but in the end, this is a huge undertaking for us to do if we did it retroactively to all the existing subways, and the question would arise as to how you would pay for it,” he said.

This thread has been in existence since 2006. Still the fiscal conservatives say "NO!".
 
This thread has been in existence since 2006. Still the fiscal conservatives say "NO!".

They're still trying to figure out how to fund the Scarborough subway extension: prerequisite line 2 rolling stock + signals ($2B) are completely unfunded.

Putting $3B in platform doors (doors + ventillation + cost escalation since neither of those have been spec'd in detail) ahead of it makes funding SSE an impossible task.

In those above 4 items we've spent Ford's entire additional $5B and haven't built a single new foot of new track or tunnel.


A wise person would ask for doors for a sleepy test station, St. George, and Bloor only; then once complete ask for a second round at the 10 busiest stations; then do problem points.

It's a huge number all at once. Break it up over 30 years and it's much easier to swallow.
 
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They're still trying to figure out how to fund the Scarborough subway extension: prerequisite line 2 rolling stock + signals ($2B) are completely unfunded.

Putting $3B in platform doors (doors + ventillation + cost escalation since neither of those have been spec'd in detail) ahead of it makes funding SSE an impossible task.

In those above 4 items we've spent Ford's entire additional $5B and haven't built a single new foot of new track or tunnel.


A wise person would ask for doors for a sleepy test station, St. George, and Bloor only; then once complete ask for a second round at the 10 busiest stations; then do problem points.

It's a huge number all at once. Break it up over 30 years and it's much easier to swallow.
Feasibility study is the bureaucratic code word for "were not serious about it" and "we dont have money"....if they were serious about it no freakn way would it take over 2 YEARS to do damn study let alone plan and construct. Who ever is doing that study would've been fired long ago if they were actually trying to push for these doors.
 
Feasibility study is the bureaucratic code word for "were not serious about it" and "we dont have money"....if they were serious about it no freakn way would it take over 2 YEARS to do damn study let alone plan and construct. Who ever is doing that study would've been fired long ago if they were actually trying to push for these doors.
I won't need a study to tell which stations are most prone to over-crowding and accidental deaths.
 
I'm quite sure they already have all of those statistics and know what happens where
 
Feasibility study is the bureaucratic code word for "were not serious about it" and "we dont have money"....if they were serious about it no freakn way would it take over 2 YEARS to do damn study let alone plan and construct. Who ever is doing that study would've been fired long ago if they were actually trying to push for these doors.

Correction - it is not a bureaucratic codeword, it is a political one for foot-dragging.

AoD
 
...
A wise person would ask for doors for a sleepy test station, St. George, and Bloor only; then once complete ask for a second round at the 10 busiest stations; then do problem points.

It's a huge number all at once. Break it up over 30 years and it's much easier to swallow.

They should do it just like the TTC is doing with elevators to make the stations accessible. GLENCAIRN, WARDEN, and ISLINGTON are to be the last stations to have elevators installed by 2025 (from link). Maybe by 2026, they can start installing platform screen doors one existing station at a time, starting with BLOOR on Line 1, followed by YONGE on Line 2, and so on.

In the meantime, all new stations and lines should have platform screen doors. Starting with Line 5 CROSSTOWN LRT.
 
In the meantime, all new stations and lines should have platform screen doors. Starting with Line 5 CROSSTOWN LRT.

I emailed the crosstown team... they said there wouldn't be platform screen doors at any of the stations.

The lack of forward thinking in design projects like this is mind-boggling. Kind of like how the TYSSE was originally done with only fixed-block signalling and needed to get ATC added on later.
 
I emailed the crosstown team... they said there wouldn't be platform screen doors at any of the stations.
Though implementing would be far cheaper than Line 1 and 2, because the platform isn't elevated, with a hollow area (as far as I know) underneath where you'd place the doors.
 
I emailed the crosstown team... they said there wouldn't be platform screen doors at any of the stations.

The lack of forward thinking in design projects like this is mind-boggling. Kind of like how the TYSSE was originally done with only fixed-block signalling and needed to get ATC added on later.
Their above ground stop shelters are not even enclosed, and now you are talking about platform screen doors...
 
They should do it just like the TTC is doing with elevators to make the stations accessible. GLENCAIRN, WARDEN, and ISLINGTON are to be the last stations to have elevators installed by 2025 (from link). Maybe by 2026, they can start installing platform screen doors one existing station at a time, starting with BLOOR on Line 1, followed by YONGE on Line 2, and so on.

In the meantime, all new stations and lines should have platform screen doors. Starting with Line 5 CROSSTOWN LRT.
Before you can look at installing screen doors, you have to decided what type of train will use line 1 and how do you deal with TR on line 2. We know in time, line 2 fleet will have to be upgraded to 500' trains and what do you do with the screen doors setup for 450' trains?

You can't install screen door for a future fleet until they are all here, unless you do it for only a few stations and provision to be used by 2 different style fleet.

Yes you can start with Line 5, but it currently a ML thing built on the cheap side and no funds for doors.
 

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