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TTC: Automatic Train Control and Subway Platform Screen Doors

Jonny5 said:
Since when do trains slow down when entering stations? They only enter slowly if there is a temporary speed restriction due to construction, or a permanent on from track design; or from a signal at or in the station that says to slow down or stop. Platform doors won't change those things.
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That's what I was thinking, except for when there is very extreme platform crowding - which isn't normal. I don't see the Line 1 trains slowing dowm much entering Bloor station, even in rush hour.
 
aquateam said:
It would reduce dwell time in two ways. Firstly, it would allow the train to enter the station faster instead of coming to a crawl (to ensure no one is on the tracks). Secondly, because of the doors, people would know where to line up to prepare to board the train, instead of standing where a door could potentially open and preventing people from exiting the train.

Personally I think the benefits might be a bit limited. Montreal has markings on the platform to let people know where the doors will stop, and that doesn't seem to stop oblivious people from standing right on top of the big yellow arrow pointing right at them, indicating the flow of passengers that they are about to block.
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It's not really the oblivious people...although we would like to wish they are. It's the people who just don't care.

In Hong Kong it works very well...but that of course takes time and education. This is what station workers are for. When trains arrive they should be helping tourists with directions. And when trains are departing they should be reminding people where to stand and to take off of their backpacks.

On a net basis this should save the TTC some money...a reduction of fare booths and train operators and a increase in station workers which a much lower base salary. (or it should save the TTC some money but they don't want to)
 
nfitz said:
That's what I was thinking, except for when there is very extreme platform crowding - which isn't normal. I don't see the Line 1 trains slowing dowm much entering Bloor station, even in rush hour.
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I have seen this pretty much daily at both Bloor and St. George (Line 1), the trains tend to crawl in heading Southbound during the AM rush.

Where I haven't seen this is busy platforms on Line 2 where the trains definitely do not reduce their speed.
 
Even without platform doors though, ATC should improve the driving of the trains in general in terms of smooth & efficient acceleration & deceleration.

I immediately noticed a difference between the yellow line and the other lines on the Montreal Metro, since the yellow one was the only one without ATC.
 
ehlow said:
I'm hoping they will just do one station at a time, starting at the busiest, Yonge-Bloor, and working their way down the list over time. Even after only a few stations have them, it should be worth it since these stations are so packed people could accidentally fall.
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One at a time? This could take decades!

The first thing that needs to be done is that there needs to be a study done now, to determine which stations, what are the pre-requisites for each station, what the design will be and what the issues are.

Then while ATC is being implemented we need to be designing and building the pre-requisites into each station...if a station like Dundas is going to need a second exit, we need to plan for it and start working on it now...or Union, what would everyone say if ATC finishes and we find out that it's going to require another 10 years of work before the ventilation system is up to code...

When ATC is done there should be a list of 10-15 stations in the core that platform doors could be implemented on in short order...sure there can be one installation company and they have a 3 year plan to do them all...but if we are looking at getting these done in a reasonable amount of time, the design needs to be worked on now, for all the stations on the YUS and BD that will get them.
 
Look how long its taking the TTC to put in elevators in every station. Their target is 2025, see link.

While they don't have to dig through the ground (that much), there is still a lot of engineering, planning, and work involved to put platform doors in for each station.
 
Aren't they planning on changing all the door positions though when they move to 7 car (500ft) long trains in the 2020s when the TRs replace the T1's on the BD line and the next generation cars are ordered for the YUS line?
 
jeffreym said:
Aren't they planning on changing all the door positions though when they move to 7 car (500ft) long trains in the 2020s when the TRs replace the T1's on the BD line and the next generation cars are ordered for the YUS line?
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I think the 7 car configuration was thrown out as a possibility during the Richmond Hill extension (which was rather rosy about the effectiveness of various measures in increasing the capacity of Line 1) - I haven't seen any substantial public reports that discussed the nitty gritty of it.

AoD
 
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TransitPolicyChanger said:
I have seen this pretty much daily at both Bloor and St. George (Line 1), the trains tend to crawl in heading Southbound during the AM rush.
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Hmm A few years ago TTC was considering re-implementing a stop and creep policy at these stations (they stopped this practice after the crash). That is, they stop at a stop signal, then push through it slowly before it changes (before the distance to the next train is considered safe for normal operation).

I wonder if that mode was approved. They were only considering it at 2 stations during morning rush in the primary congested direction.
 
According to this youtube poster, Automatic Train Control is now live between Dupont and Yorkdale


Can anyone verify this?
 
It turns out they are still in the testing stages of ATC. Dupont to Yorkdale will revert back to conventional signals during the next schedule closure.
 
With the T1 Replacement order coming up soon, I suspect we will see what the TTC is thinking relatively shortly. the 6.5 car length trains would work well with ATC as they can be much more precise in their stopping location on train platforms, and would incrementally increase capacity.

Dealing with Yonge capacity is the sort of thing that every little bit helps. Sure, it may be a 5% increase in capacity, but 5% is 5% that was not there before.
 
innsertnamehere said:
With the T1 Replacement order coming up soon, I suspect we will see what the TTC is thinking relatively shortly. the 6.5 car length trains would work well with ATC as they can be much more precise in their stopping location on train platforms, and would incrementally increase capacity.

Dealing with Yonge capacity is the sort of thing that every little bit helps. Sure, it may be a 5% increase in capacity, but 5% is 5% that was not there before.
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In a perfect scenario obviously that's true. But with the small stations having poor ingress/egress like those found south of Eglinton I think it actually may make things worse. You cram more in where there isn't room, you create a slower outflow at the other end, and likely more conflict points (where there already are conflict points). This worsened turbulent flow will naturally ripple down line. Basic physics is one reason why many "extra capacity" claims for Lines 1 and 2 are bs.
 
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