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Transit Fantasy Maps

Bureaucromancer

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The Kingston - Queensway Line is really long and it might make sense to break it in half like the 504

Also why have it miss Scarborough GO and Dixie GO?

Good path to retaining the Dufferin / Cherry routes. Although I now realize I’ve forgotten to stick a king surface route on here (though it’s probably skippable with a properly local oriented subway). The combination route is definitely longer than ideal

I wouldn’t call this a skip of Scarborough GO - though in a specific design some deviation would be nice.

As far as Dixie, I’d absolutely support rerouting that way if there is some other 427 rapid transit, so in other word, it probably is a better option.

Edit: reworked the map to show this, and threw in a couple other things I'd really like for the streetcar network.
 
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blacksquirrels

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I mean honestly, this isn't surprising with either Toronto's geography or a budget.

My take is that at the end of the day, the next thing that approaches a downtown connection really is the GO Midtown. Beyond that, what further downtown transit could even be anticipated?

Realistically the possibilities would seem to be:
  • some kind of enhanced surface service on Bay
  • surface imrpovements on the streetcar lines
  • a GO tunnel
  • A second relief line would seem vaguely possible in the long term, being something of a mirror of the OL, entering from a northerly direction and dipping south, but the details are really very vague
    • I wonder if this might actually be most appropriately done with creation of an underground streetcar corridor - a King tunnel inspired by the 1945 Queen plan would actually seem a very nice supplement to the OL
  • Edit: some kind of surface lanes for accessing the Union Station Bus Terminal would seem possibly reasonable, but we probably are headed in the direction of limiting the number of busses going all the way there.
as far as what I could see as an enhanced streetcar network that actually fits with the OL, contemplate something like the below,with today's routes using it, and purely surface routes operating on the core segments only:

View attachment 427900

a GO tunnel either under Wellington or the GO corridor itself makes more sense.
 

LemonCondo

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Can't be that hard to put a little precast concrete parking curb on the outside of the dotted line and paint a "NO CARS" sign on the roadway. Theres just no political will to making the streetcars run faster

View attachment 427955
View attachment 427956

But we can't get rid of street parking in a major downtown core that already has probably some of the highest amounts of underground parking for any given downtown in the world!! That would be impossible! Think about the businesses that will shut down due to not having space to accommodate exactly two cars in front of them instead of allowing for a vastly improved streetcar line able to transport thousands of people a day!
 

sunnyside

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Latest version of this fantasy map by this Twitter user:

Generally I like this, but I have some questions and comments. First, what is the diversion going around Dundurn-Locke for? And where would that realistically go? There isn't exactly room around Dundas. Some of these lines are too close together, for visual purposes- Richmond Hill and Stouffville (now just tracks for other services, but I digress) are not the same line, and should have some distance between them. With the number of services in the east, I think you are going to have to further distort the GO map from here. There is not really room to cram this all in without it looking congested. Because many of these are interlined services, why not make the strokes narrower when they converge? I understand you want to show the higher levels of service, but the USRC and RH-Stouffville corridor(s) look kind of silly being this large. Essentially, if you are going to make the map geographically inaccurate, you may as well try to space things out to be as visually appealing and representative of the user experience as possible.
 

AlxOptimism

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I've noticed some dead zones in Fantasy Maps and it makes me really curious. The two biggest ones would be North Scarborough and Jane & Lawrence/Downsview/PeloPark-Humberlea. I see many suburban areas prioritized over these despite the modest density.

Sure there's the Jane LRT but my inclination is that in 40 years its going to be overwhelmed, even with signal priority. Remember that trains cant be longer than ~100m or so without blocking off a lot of intersections which would be controversial. At the very least it will need to be connected to Weston in my mind.

North Scarborough seems like a natural extension to the SSE with potential for value engineering in the hydro corridor / cut and cover with the wide RoW (If theres anywhere Toronto would build more cut and cover Subway it would be Scarborough right?) It is suburban but there are spots of density, as well as the potential for a one seat ride from the Stouffville line to Scarborough Center without having to go all the way to Kennedy (which is helpful as congestion will grow at Kennedy with the EELRT and Ontario Line via Crosstown).

I've scrolled through about 40 pages and the most I've seen is a REM proposal through the Scarborough industrial, if there are some older posts just let me know!
 

TossYourJacket

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If theres anywhere Toronto would build more cut and cover Subway it would be Scarborough right?
Cut and Cover tunnels don't win votes. Building transit in Scarborough has become more about winning votes than actually serving the people of Scarborough. So any extension beyond the SSE would unfortunately be done via a deep bored tunnel, and cost an absurd amount of money as a result.

That said, I do agree with your point that northern Scarborough is ignored on many fantasy transit maps. That said, building a series of BRT lines on major arterials might be better than a single subway extension.
 

DirectionNorth

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I've noticed some dead zones in Fantasy Maps and it makes me really curious. The two biggest ones would be North Scarborough and Jane & Lawrence/Downsview/PeloPark-Humberlea. I see many suburban areas prioritized over these despite the modest density.

Sure there's the Jane LRT but my inclination is that in 40 years its going to be overwhelmed, even with signal priority. Remember that trains cant be longer than ~100m or so without blocking off a lot of intersections which would be controversial. At the very least it will need to be connected to Weston in my mind.
There's been some debate about how to build a Jane corridor. Some, including myself, have suggested a western Ontario Line extension onto Jane. We will see whether the line has enough capacity for that in 2030.
North Scarborough seems like a natural extension to the SSE with potential for value engineering in the hydro corridor / cut and cover with the wide RoW (If theres anywhere Toronto would build more cut and cover Subway it would be Scarborough right?) It is suburban but there are spots of density, as well as the potential for a one seat ride from the Stouffville line to Scarborough Center without having to go all the way to Kennedy (which is helpful as congestion will grow at Kennedy with the EELRT and Ontario Line via Crosstown).

I've scrolled through about 40 pages and the most I've seen is a REM proposal through the Scarborough industrial, if there are some older posts just let me know!
A Malvern extension of the SRT would have been a good way to extend train service into the heart of Northern Scarborough. It's too late now, that train has left the station (the planet?).

I think that with that in mind, a network of BRT-light serving Scarborough (and indeed the whole city), and feeding into a Sheppard East Subway and SSE, would be the best solution going forwards. This would include Stouffville GO as RER, another service which would allow for more connections with fare integration (but that's another topic that we could spend hundreds of pages talking about).
 

sunnyside

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I've noticed some dead zones in Fantasy Maps and it makes me really curious. The two biggest ones would be North Scarborough and Jane & Lawrence/Downsview/PeloPark-Humberlea. I see many suburban areas prioritized over these despite the modest density.

Sure there's the Jane LRT but my inclination is that in 40 years its going to be overwhelmed, even with signal priority. Remember that trains cant be longer than ~100m or so without blocking off a lot of intersections which would be controversial. At the very least it will need to be connected to Weston in my mind.

North Scarborough seems like a natural extension to the SSE with potential for value engineering in the hydro corridor / cut and cover with the wide RoW (If theres anywhere Toronto would build more cut and cover Subway it would be Scarborough right?) It is suburban but there are spots of density, as well as the potential for a one seat ride from the Stouffville line to Scarborough Center without having to go all the way to Kennedy (which is helpful as congestion will grow at Kennedy with the EELRT and Ontario Line via Crosstown).

I've scrolled through about 40 pages and the most I've seen is a REM proposal through the Scarborough industrial, if there are some older posts just let me know!
There are many, many areas that transit fantasy maps here omit.
 

11th

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I've noticed some dead zones in Fantasy Maps and it makes me really curious. The two biggest ones would be North Scarborough and Jane & Lawrence/Downsview/PeloPark-Humberlea. I see many suburban areas prioritized over these despite the modest density.

Sure there's the Jane LRT but my inclination is that in 40 years its going to be overwhelmed, even with signal priority. Remember that trains cant be longer than ~100m or so without blocking off a lot of intersections which would be controversial. At the very least it will need to be connected to Weston in my mind.

North Scarborough seems like a natural extension to the SSE with potential for value engineering in the hydro corridor / cut and cover with the wide RoW (If theres anywhere Toronto would build more cut and cover Subway it would be Scarborough right?) It is suburban but there are spots of density, as well as the potential for a one seat ride from the Stouffville line to Scarborough Center without having to go all the way to Kennedy (which is helpful as congestion will grow at Kennedy with the EELRT and Ontario Line via Crosstown).

I've scrolled through about 40 pages and the most I've seen is a REM proposal through the Scarborough industrial, if there are some older posts just let me know!
If done right, from McCowan, line 4 can easily be extended to serve Malvern without much tunneling.
 

reaperexpress

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Here's my fantasy for how the planned all-day GO train services would be organized. Rather than displaying 'lines' (e.g. Lakeshore West, Lakeshore East) with various services patterns which are not shown on the map, this map displays 'services' (e.g. RE1, R1, S1). This makes it much easier for people to understand the different stopping patterns, as well as the through running which occurs at Union.

This organisation is inspired by DB's Regio and S-Bahn services in Germany. All services can be operated on the infrastructure which is already planned or existing.

SBahnToronto.PNG

Local services stop at every station along the route. They typically operate every 15 minutes, though on the outer edge of some routes, the service drops to every 30 minutes and alternates with Regional trains to form a combined 15-minute service. They are always operated by electric trains.
Regional services make limited stops within the core service area, and then make all stops in the outer suburbs. They typically operate every 30 minutes. They may be operated by electric or diesel trains.
Regional Express services connect major cities and only stop at key hubs while they overlap with other services. They typically operate every hour. They are always operated by diesel trains.

I also renamed several stations for a couple reasons.

Specify community where station is located:
Old NameNew NameNotes
CasablancaGrimsby
ConfederationStoney Creek
West HarbourHamilton Harbouralso avoid confusion with East Harbour
East HarbourToronto Harbouralso avoid confusion with West Harbour
Allandale WaterfrontBarrie Allandale

Avoid confusion with similarly named station:
Old NameNew NameNotes
ScarboroughScarborough Junctionavoid confusion with Scarborough Centre
EglintonEglinton Eastavoid confusion with Eglinton (TTC)
WoodbinePearson Junctionavoid confusion with Woodbine (TTC)
Mount PleasantBrampton Westavoid confusion with Mount Pleasant (TTC)
BramaleaBramalea Southavoid confusion with Bramalea terminal
OshawaOshawa Southavoid confusion with Oshawa terminal / Oshawa Centre station
 
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blacksquirrels

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Here's my fantasy for how the planned all-day GO train services would be organized. Rather than displaying 'lines' (e.g. Lakeshore West, Lakeshore East) with various services patterns which are not shown on the map, this map displays 'services' (e.g. RE1, R1, S1). This makes it much easier for people to understand the different stopping patterns, as well as the through running which occurs at Union.

This organisation is inspired by DB's Regio and S-Bahn services in Germany. All services can be operated on the infrastructure which is already planned or existing.

View attachment 435950
Local services stop at every station along the route. They typically operate every 15 minutes, though on the outer edge of some routes, the service drops to every 30 minutes and alternates with Regional trains to form a combined 15-minute service. They are always operated by electric trains.
Regional services make limited stops within the core service area, and then make all stops in the outer suburbs. They typically operate every 30 minutes. They may be operated by electric or diesel trains.
Regional Express services connect major cities and only stop at key hubs while they overlap with other services. They typically operate every hour. They are always operated by diesel trains.

I also renamed several stations for a couple reasons.

Specify community where station is located:
Old NameNew NameNotes
CasablancaGrimsby
ConfederationStoney Creek
West HarbourHamilton Harbouralso avoid confusion with East Harbour
East HarbourToronto Harbouralso avoid confusion with West Harbour
Allandale WaterfrontBarrie Allandale

Avoid confusion with similarly named station:
Old NameNew NameNotes
ScarboroughScarborough Junctionavoid confusion with Scarborough Centre
EglintonEglinton Eastavoid confusion with Eglinton (TTC)
WoodbinePearson Junctionavoid confusion with Woodbine (TTC)
Mount PleasantBrampton Westavoid confusion with Mount Pleasant (TTC)
BramaleaBramalea Southavoid confusion with Bramalea terminal
OshawaOshawa Southavoid confusion with Oshawa terminal / Oshawa Centre station

great map! this is exactly what Toronto (the GTA) needs.

if you combined the Local (red) and Regional (light green) lines into a Toronto S-Bahn network with 6 trains per hour/per line this theoretical system would rival the Berlin S-Bahn network. this is also very realistic, unlike most fantasy maps. the only missing element would be fare integration, which has to happen eventually.

Berlin S-Bahn Network

System Length:
340 km
Number of Lines: 16 (including branches); 9 (excluding branches)
Number of Stations: 168
Number of Trains (per hour/ bi-directional): 96
Core Lines: 3
Daily Ridership: 1,500,000 (average weekday)
Annual Ridership: 478,000,000
Fare: unified fare system

Toronto S-Bahn Network

System Length:
340 km*
Number of Lines: 6
Number of Stations: 70 (56 current + 14 planned/theoretical)
Number of Trains (per hour/ bi-directional): 36
Core Lines: 1
Daily Ridership: ?
Annual Ridership: ?
Fare: ?
*(includes electrified extensions to Old Elm, Bowmanville, Hamilton Harbour, Brampton West, but only to Bradford on the Barrie Line)

TTC

1 - Yonge
2 - Bloor
3 - Ontario
4 - Shepard
5 - Eglinton LRT
6 - Finch LRT

Toronto S-Bahn: 6 trains per hour (bi-directional)

S1 - Lakeshore (Burlington - Oshawa)
S2 - Lakeshore X (Hamilton Harbour - Bowmanville)
S3 - Milton - Union
S4 - Airport - Unionville
S5 - Brampton West - Old Elm
S6 - Bradford - Union

GO Regional: 1 to 2 trains per hour

R1- Niagara Falls
R2 - Hamilton Centre
R3 - London
R4 - Kitchener
R5 - Barrie
R6 - Richmond Hill
 

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