Transit Fantasy Maps

[44 North]

Just for fun; since there’s been discussions on here about what to do with the SRT corridor, with great ideas like having it become a branch of SmartTrack - I thought about having it instead become part of an RER DRL. I love the idea of a branched system, and what better line to have branches than the DRL?

It should be pretty obvious what’s happening on this map: From Don Mills/Eglinton, one branch runs up Don Mills for 2.5km then uses the RH corridor to RHC. The two others use the Midtown corridor (which was in the news recently re: political desire to reroute freight traffic). The second branch would connect to the Stouffville corridor to Unionville (thus replacing a portion of SmartTrack), and the third branch would run below Ellesmere for 2km to use the former SRT corridor to STC.

Considering SmartTrack has an absurd TEN KILOMETRE tunnelled (or elevated) section to an office park in the outskirts of ‘Sauga, I think this could give it a run for its money - both in terms of cost, value, and how realistic it could be. I’m not saying this is realistic, but compared to whatever’s going on with ST’s Eglinton spur; I think this could be more practical/possible. Costs for this branched DRL RER system could be cannibalized from the Scarb Subway (~$3.5bn), SELRT (~$1bn), Eglinton East (~$1bn), and I guess SmartTrack.

 

[WislaHD]

Great idea!

Since this version of the DRL is GO-RER, there is no need for it to stop in the downtown tunnel. Have it continue west to combine with GO-RER on the Georgetown line. (Or SmartTrack alignment )

 

[44 North]

Thanks. Yeah I was thinking about having it continue up the Georgetown corridor, or interline with Lake Shore West. But I didn’t want it to get too crazy with branches at either end. And oftentimes I terminate my DRL routes at St Andrew so it can be weighed against the phases in the DRTES for cost/length comparison. Basically this idea was just to see how a branched subway/RER line could possibly look on a map if built in TO.

 

[doady]

I reuploaded my map because the other website got shut down. It is hard to find a host for PDF that let's viewing in browser. This one has fewer controls (no hand tool to drag map around in browser) but you can still download if you want.

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Edit May 7: The site I uploaded to previously (kiwi6) was not shut down after all! Kiwi6 merely deactivated my account because I did not log in for so long. I logged in and so the old link works again. This one is better because it loads the PDF directly, there is not any other web interface in the way of the PDF.

 

[BurlOak]

I was looking for a diagram showing the number of rail tracks along the GO network. The best I found was this, but it was a proposal, and not actual.

I didn't think it would be so hard - but I could not find anything even close. Does anyone have a link or a secret sketch in their posession?

 

[44 North]

I reuploaded my map because the other website got shut down. It is hard to find a host for PDF that let's viewing in browser. This one has fewer controls (no hand tool to drag map around in browser) but you can still download if you want.

Cool map. Looks like a hive of activity in Scarborough, transit-wise. Frankly, I don’t know why there’s always so much transit proposed there. TransitCity, OneCity, FordCity... the amount of higher-order transit coverage is more than downtown.

And I see what you’ve done with the Richmond Hill line, which makes sense. I’ve been contemplating routing along the Leaside Spur for my DRL/RH, but I don’t know how viable it is to use since it’s a now biking trail. Can the City take it back or cede it over to Metrolinx? If so, it’s clearly a great route for the Richmond Hill line or a surface DRL (or a hybrid of both). And for minimal cost, a line could be cut/covered along the corridor leaving the trail still usable on the surface.

But IMO running a Richmond Hill RER line and a DRL a block away from each other, with stations so close together and sharing catchments, might be a bit excessive. Since both lines travel between Union and Sheppard, why not just have one route the two can share (either Don Mills, or the Leaside Spur)?

 

[doady]

My map not to scale so Scarborough looks very small, downtown looks very big, so maybe that's why Scarborough seems to have more line?

Scarborough is isolated (lack of highways, discontinuous Lawrence Ave East, unfinished transit lines, lack of integration with YRT), so maybe it needs a little more attention for transit anyways.

I like the idea of Richmond Hill and Don Mills lines sharing the same corridor. But subway is TTC gauge, not standard gauge. So the two lines cannot share tracks.

It makes me wonder about gauge of Hurontario-Main line too because Lakeshore (Waterfront West) also to Port Credit will definitely be TTC gauge.

 

[gweed123]

I like the idea of Richmond Hill and Don Mills lines sharing the same corridor. But subway is TTC gauge, not standard gauge. So the two lines cannot share tracks.

You could always use GO RER rolling stock. That would mean the line would be inoperable with the TTC subway system, but would merge in nicely with the GO RER system. That offers many more realistic interlining/branching opportunities than connecting with the TTC subway network ever could.

It makes me wonder about gauge of Hurontario-Main line too because Lakeshore (Waterfront West) also to Port Credit will definitely be TTC gauge.

I've thought about that too. Extending the WWLRT to Port Credit makes sense from a network connectivity perspective. It may also make sense to continue it north to Square One, possibly being the route that uses the loop. That would allow the mainline Hurontario LRT to avoid the loop and just run straight down Hurontario, with only a brief diversion at Square One.

Of course, doing that eliminates the possibility of the Hurontario LRT one day interlining with the Eglinton LRT, which could only day replace the western leg of the Mississauga Transitway.

No matter what gauge you pick, you're going to have at least one line that either out of sync with the other LRT lines it connects to, or is out of sync with streetcar routes that it crosses (if the WWLRT is built as standard gauge, I mean).

 

[WislaHD]

How important is it to have the DRL operable with the TTC subway system?

Beyond the Downtown Core, the DRL's main function will be connecting the various lines (Sheppard, Eglinton, Bloor) together, not interlining with them. It seems to me that it would be much more functional to run GO RER rolling stock.

 

[gweed123]

How important is it to have the DRL operable with the TTC subway system?

Honestly, not very. The DRL would likely require it's own yard, unless some serious shifting goes on, whereby the DRL uses Greenwood, and Bloor-Danforth gets a new yard built at either the east or west end of the line. Using GO RER rolling stock on the other hand would allow any number of GO yards to be used. They can also be built further out in the suburbs, where land costs won't be so high.

Beyond the Downtown Core, the DRL's main function will be connecting the various lines (Sheppard, Eglinton, Bloor) together, not interlining with them. It seems to me that it would be much more functional to run GO RER rolling stock.

Agreed completely. Using GO RER rolling stock would also allow branches of the DRL to use RER tracks, and extend much further into the suburbs than building a new subway ever could, unless that subway had a virtually unlimited budget. Using GO RER trains for the DRL makes far better use of existing/immediately planned suburban transit infrastructure. It also ensures that the "Relief" part of the DRL is maximized, since it would intercept a far greater number of lines than most subway DRL proposals.

 

[jcam]

The DRL would likely require it's own yard, unless some serious shifting goes on, whereby the DRL uses Greenwood, and Bloor-Danforth gets a new yard built at either the east or west end of the line.

Ideal world: Metrolinx takes over regional transit, including the TTC, once the stench of the overruns on TYSSE settle down. DRL uses Greenwood to supplement other GO yards (as it is on the corridor), and TTC/Metrolinx purchases the CN yard in Etobicoke off Kipling for a Line 2 yard.

 

[44 North]

I wouldn’t want Metrolinx taking over the TTC. They didn’t bat an eye when MoveOntario 2020 was released. 52 transit projects, none of which included a DRL. That's pretty short-sighted...actually that's a major oversight. If they support multi-Billion Dollar subway projects like the Vaughan extension, and the Markham extension - and later claim that the DRL will "involve buses" – then it’s clear where their focus lies.

 

[WislaHD]

If Metrolinx had Toronot's interest in mind, then there would be no reason for SmartTrack (sans Eglinton spur) to be proposed as all those things would have been included in the GO RER plans from the start.

 

[jcam]

Inevitability of Metrolinx taking over: 1) Crosstown, Finch West, Sheppard East will all be owned by Metrolinx, not TTC, 2) fare integration, as required by TYSSE extension and GO RER.

My guess it won't happen in this provincial government term, but likely the next.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Ha, no.

I'd sooner expect the LRTs to be downloaded onto Toronto, than for Metrolinx to oversee Toronto transit.

Furthermore, TYSSE, Yonge North, SSE and RL will be owned by Toronto.