Transit Fantasy Maps

[salsa]

If they realize that doing so would divert some ridership from Yonge.

So that those riders end up at Yonge & Bloor instead of Finch station. I don't see the justification.

 

[innsertnamehere]

This would presumably be post-DRL.

It could also work by splitting the finch bus line in 2, with it going down to sheppard. I think there should be BRT lanes up to finch along McCowen, and have the Finch & Steeles buses be split to run down to Sheppard East station.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

If they realize that doing so would divert some ridership from Yonge. However, first, IMHO, a stop at Danforth Rd. should be considered since it would actually be in one of the densest areas of Scarborough.

Very true and Good point. I never considered that.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I would reverse the DRL and yonge extensions, the DRL will be first. Metrolinx has been very clear about that. Maybe stick them in the same year or the yonge line a year behind it. I still beleive that we will be looking at a 2025 completion of the DRL as well. I would also differentiate between surface LRT and metro rapid transit, and change the colour of the sheppard LRT to make it clearer that it isn't a sheppard subway extension. Make the dates run slower and smoother as well. Yonge extension won't be that long either, maybe cut it back a little bit, and have it curve to the east a little just before it ends to account for the location of RHC station.

Otherwise, great work!

New version! Switched around the DRL and Yonge Extension, made the timeline and length larger, changed the colour and of Sheppard LRT. The Yonge extension still is a little too long by a few pixels and I accidentally made the Yonge Subway terminate a little bit short of Finch (>300 meters), which probably makes the extension seem longer than it is. But that's not too much of a big deal. The image gets the point across

 

[diminutive]

Cityrail regional rapid transit

So this is another iteration of what I've been trying to promote here in terms of wrapping the DRL together with S-bahn or regional style rail.

There's nothing especially unique about any particular component of this, but cumulatively it would represent a major improvement to transit in every part of the city; improved transit in downtown's 'shoulder areas,' rapid transit access for the extremities in Etobicoke and Scarborough, genuine rapid transit for the 905 and substantial relief for the Yonge Line.

The basic idea would be to create four major radial routes (Lakeshore West, Weston, DonMills/DVP, Lakeshore East) which would connect to a central distributor line through the core (the DRL).

Central Component:

This route is more station dense than some DRL versions, roughly approximating the Bloor line. Other major changes would be the Front->Queen kink along John, and the interlining.

The kink would basically allow more stations downtown, one @ MTCC and one in the Entertainment District. Both of those areas have seen proposals for quite large redevelopment (Mirvish Gehry, the Oxford-Casino-concept) and have seen substantial development already (e.g. 'Westcore'). One issue most DRL proposals have is lack of CBD stations (e.g. Osgoode/Queen, St.Andrew/King, Union). Fewer stations = fewer destinations, which leaves Yonge as a more attractive route, reducing any relief value.

As for the interlining, it would enable more branching in the suburbs. The lines would join together between Gerrard Square and Dufferin/Queen. It would have to be designed to handle very high train frequencies (90s would be ideal) so that branch service would still be fairly quick.

Eastern Toronto:

From Gerrard Square, one branch would turn north along Pape to Eglinton-Don Mills. In my route, the railway would avoid Flemingdon Park and just cut diagonally through Thorncliffe (at-grade) to save money, running time and allow a better interchange with the Crosstown.

This branch would then break into two smaller branches, one travelling along DonMills/DVP on an elevated viaduct to Buttonville and the other along the rail corridor to Agincourt and STC. The connection to STC would obviate the need for any kind of SRT replacement. Riders would instead get a quicker, one seat ride downtown.

I also included a branch along the rail corridor into Malvern, but it would likely be better to scrap that and increase frequency on the other two branches. As you can see, nearly every station is intersected by two or more high volume surface routes. Not shown on the map, but I imagine the DonMills/DVP brach extending to the proposed Buttonville redevelopment. It's apparently one of the largest single development projects in the region, and the 404/407 area is already one of the largest employment areas, so it deserves some service.

The second major branch, which is more strait forward, would be a rapid transit version of Lakeshore East. Add a few stations here and there. This service would run to either Pickering or Ajax to serve the 905 commuter market better.

Notional AM peak schedule (no Malvern branch) would be: 10 trains to Pickering/Ajax, 15 to Buttonville and 15 to STC.

Western Toronto:

Similar to in the East. One major branch which would run in the Georgetown corridor, recycling UPE's track space. This branch would continue onto Bramalea or Brampton, depending on ease of construction. One branch would break off after Weston station to run, through an elevated viaduct on Albion, to a new transit hub at the Albion Center. Like in the East, most of these stations intersect several high volume surface routes, particularly the Albion hub. This would save people having to make long bus rides to the Spadina or Bloor Lines.

The UPE spur and station would be reused as well. If the soon-to-be-new Pearson station can't accommodate longer trains, it may be easier to just have an entirely separate people mover shuttle line between Pearson and the corridor. In the long run, it may also be worthwhile to extend the spur, around the airport, to the office cluster on Matheson. Apparently it's one of the region's biggest...

The other major branch would again be pretty strait forward rapid transit version of Lakeshore West. From Dufferin/Queen, the line would continue underground to Sunnyside then stay in the railcorridor until Oakville or so. In Toronto, I'd place new stations at Queen/Lansdowne, Sunnyside, Parklawn & Kipling.

Notional peak schedule: 4 trains/hr to Pearson, 10 to Oakville, 12 to AlbionCenter/Rexdale, 12 to Brampton.

Impacts?

GO would need to be completely rethought. My proposal would cannibalize most of GO's busiest markets (Lakeshore West, Oakville->Union; Lakeshore East, Pickering->Union; Georgetown, Bramalea->Union).

The TTC's surface network downtown would need to get rethought as well. People like Steve Munro continually insist the DRL and the 501/504 serve totally different markets but I don't believe that. Maybe the streetcars wont get completely cannibalized, but surely travel demands will change substantially. Quite detailed modelling would be necessary to figure out how exactly the surface network would need to change.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I like this plan.

 

[bielawski]

Not exactly a fantasy map, but I tried to find out the minimum amount of construction to run all-day Milton GO service while reserving two tracks for CP's use at all times.

Here's a summary of what would be required for half-hourly service:

• 33 km of new track (the whole corridor being just over 50 km long) including:
  • a third track between Milton and Erindale, and Cooksville and Dixie
  • sidings at Lisgar, Erindale, and Dixie
• 5 major bridges to widen or twin
• Reconstruction of platforms at 8 stations
• Realignment of existing tracks at 6 stations

And a diagram and schedule (green tracks/blue trips are for further expansion to 15 minute service)

 

[diminutive]

I like this plan.

Thank you! I've tried to put a lot of thought into it.

Obviously I'm biased to thinking my ideas are best, but I think it would solve several transit issues. To my knowledge;
-Would provide genuine S-Bahn/RER service to the suburbs.
-Would provide suburban services to locations other than Union.
-Would reduce pressure on Bloor-Yonge
-Would provide rapid transit access to downtown 'shoulder' areas.
-Would eliminate the need for any kind of "Bathurst GO Terminal" or Lakeshore Tunnel under Union (I think these are BS, but GO's making them so wtv).
-Would provide rapid transit to Etobicoke & Scarborough.
-Would improve surface network efficiency, as lines would have greater turnover (e.g. someone at Leslie/Steeles may take an otherwise empty Eastbound Steeles bus to the DVP/Steeles station).
-Would allow greater flexibility to replan surface operations downtown (no need to maintain the fiction that mixed-traffic streetcars are a reliable transit method).
-Would absorb the biggest peaks in GO demand (AM/PM peaks out of Oakville, Brampton, Pickering ect...), which would allow GO to reorient to serving thinner markets more effectively with DMUs.
-Would be relatively affordable. The project as a whole would be hugely expensive, but on a per/km basis costs shouldn't be much higher than LRT. Overall there would be very little tunneling.
-Should cut down on operations costs. The lines could be completely automated, and the stations would be mostly unmanned. Combined w/ better surface utilization this could reduce personal costs fairly substantially.

There are downsides I'm sure, but on the whole it seems most practical to combine S-Bahn/RER and the DRL into one project.

The most common critique I imagine would be that station spacing is too dense downtown to function as an effective suburban transit system/wont provide relief to B-Y. I don't think this is a fair criticism, though. The station dense portions of my route are quite short (3-4km). The difference between 600-700m and 900-1000 or greater spacing would amount to one or two minutes of difference, yet would provide significant destination coverage.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Not exactly a fantasy map, but I tried to find out the minimum amount of construction to run all-day Milton GO service while reserving two tracks for CP's use at all times.

Here's a summary of what would be required for half-hourly service:

• 33 km of new track (the whole corridor being just over 50 km long) including:
  • a third track between Milton and Erindale, and Cooksville and Dixie
  • sidings at Lisgar, Erindale, and Dixie
• 5 major bridges to widen or twin
• Reconstruction of platforms at 8 stations
• Realignment of existing tracks at 6 stations

And a diagram and schedule (green tracks/blue trips are for further expansion to 15 minute service)

This is pretty interesting. Can you do one for other lines?

Thank you! I've tried to put a lot of thought into it.

Obviously I'm biased to thinking my ideas are best, but I think it would solve several transit issues. To my knowledge;
-Would provide genuine S-Bahn/RER service to the suburbs.
-Would provide suburban services to locations other than Union.
-Would reduce pressure on Bloor-Yonge
-Would provide rapid transit access to downtown 'shoulder' areas.
-Would eliminate the need for any kind of "Bathurst GO Terminal" or Lakeshore Tunnel under Union (I think these are BS, but GO's making them so wtv).
-Would provide rapid transit to Etobicoke & Scarborough.
-Would improve surface network efficiency, as lines would have greater turnover (e.g. someone at Leslie/Steeles may take an otherwise empty Eastbound Steeles bus to the DVP/Steeles station).
-Would allow greater flexibility to replan surface operations downtown (no need to maintain the fiction that mixed-traffic streetcars are a reliable transit method).
-Would absorb the biggest peaks in GO demand (AM/PM peaks out of Oakville, Brampton, Pickering ect...), which would allow GO to reorient to serving thinner markets more effectively with DMUs.
-Would be relatively affordable. The project as a whole would be hugely expensive, but on a per/km basis costs shouldn't be much higher than LRT. Overall there would be very little tunneling.
-Should cut down on operations costs. The lines could be completely automated, and the stations would be mostly unmanned. Combined w/ better surface utilization this could reduce personal costs fairly substantially.

There are downsides I'm sure, but on the whole it seems most practical to combine S-Bahn/RER and the DRL into one project.

The most common critique I imagine would be that station spacing is too dense downtown to function as an effective suburban transit system/wont provide relief to B-Y. I don't think this is a fair criticism, though. The station dense portions of my route are quite short (3-4km). The difference between 600-700m and 900-1000 or greater spacing would amount to one or two minutes of difference, yet would provide significant destination coverage.

Agreed. I think this idea will bring more people downtown then a subway, although the loss of GO Trains inner system would be an issue, it would be a big boon to outer toronto hoods

 

[JWBF]

So that those riders end up at Yonge & Bloor instead of Finch station. I don't see the justification.

Reduce some strain to the Yonge line from Bloor to Finch. Y&B will always be congestion point, however, diverting some traffic to B&D, and the future Relief Line, will help.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

This is a new idea I came up with. The DRL goes up Keele and Coxwell, passing Thorncliffe. But the Don Mills line goes to Steeles, and the DRL west goes through weston rd and then Albion to Highway 27. Thoughts?

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Another idea to appease Scarborough completely. This time the central portion is along Adelaide and not Queen. The west end runs up Parkside, Keele, Weston and Albion, but in the east it goes on Eastern Ave but cuts across Kingston Road to Victoria Park and Gerrard and then up Danforth Rd to McCowan and Steeles. No transfer for Northern Etoicoke or Scarborough. Again, thoughts are welcome.

 

[Translude15]

So this is another iteration of what I've been trying to promote here in terms of wrapping the DRL together with S-bahn or regional style rail.

There's nothing especially unique about any particular component of this, but cumulatively it would represent a major improvement to transit in every part of the city; improved transit in downtown's 'shoulder areas,' rapid transit access for the extremities in Etobicoke and Scarborough, genuine rapid transit for the 905 and substantial relief for the Yonge Line.

The basic idea would be to create four major radial routes (Lakeshore West, Weston, DonMills/DVP, Lakeshore East) which would connect to a central distributor line through the core (the DRL).

Central Component:

This route is more station dense than some DRL versions, roughly approximating the Bloor line. Other major changes would be the Front->Queen kink along John, and the interlining.

The kink would basically allow more stations downtown, one @ MTCC and one in the Entertainment District. Both of those areas have seen proposals for quite large redevelopment (Mirvish Gehry, the Oxford-Casino-concept) and have seen substantial development already (e.g. 'Westcore'). One issue most DRL proposals have is lack of CBD stations (e.g. Osgoode/Queen, St.Andrew/King, Union). Fewer stations = fewer destinations, which leaves Yonge as a more attractive route, reducing any relief value.

As for the interlining, it would enable more branching in the suburbs. The lines would join together between Gerrard Square and Dufferin/Queen. It would have to be designed to handle very high train frequencies (90s would be ideal) so that branch service would still be fairly quick.

Eastern Toronto:

From Gerrard Square, one branch would turn north along Pape to Eglinton-Don Mills. In my route, the railway would avoid Flemingdon Park and just cut diagonally through Thorncliffe (at-grade) to save money, running time and allow a better interchange with the Crosstown.

This branch would then break into two smaller branches, one travelling along DonMills/DVP on an elevated viaduct to Buttonville and the other along the rail corridor to Agincourt and STC. The connection to STC would obviate the need for any kind of SRT replacement. Riders would instead get a quicker, one seat ride downtown.

I also included a branch along the rail corridor into Malvern, but it would likely be better to scrap that and increase frequency on the other two branches. As you can see, nearly every station is intersected by two or more high volume surface routes. Not shown on the map, but I imagine the DonMills/DVP brach extending to the proposed Buttonville redevelopment. It's apparently one of the largest single development projects in the region, and the 404/407 area is already one of the largest employment areas, so it deserves some service.

The second major branch, which is more strait forward, would be a rapid transit version of Lakeshore East. Add a few stations here and there. This service would run to either Pickering or Ajax to serve the 905 commuter market better.

Notional AM peak schedule (no Malvern branch) would be: 10 trains to Pickering/Ajax, 15 to Buttonville and 15 to STC.

Western Toronto:

Similar to in the East. One major branch which would run in the Georgetown corridor, recycling UPE's track space. This branch would continue onto Bramalea or Brampton, depending on ease of construction. One branch would break off after Weston station to run, through an elevated viaduct on Albion, to a new transit hub at the Albion Center. Like in the East, most of these stations intersect several high volume surface routes, particularly the Albion hub. This would save people having to make long bus rides to the Spadina or Bloor Lines.

The UPE spur and station would be reused as well. If the soon-to-be-new Pearson station can't accommodate longer trains, it may be easier to just have an entirely separate people mover shuttle line between Pearson and the corridor. In the long run, it may also be worthwhile to extend the spur, around the airport, to the office cluster on Matheson. Apparently it's one of the region's biggest...

The other major branch would again be pretty strait forward rapid transit version of Lakeshore West. From Dufferin/Queen, the line would continue underground to Sunnyside then stay in the railcorridor until Oakville or so. In Toronto, I'd place new stations at Queen/Lansdowne, Sunnyside, Parklawn & Kipling.

Notional peak schedule: 4 trains/hr to Pearson, 10 to Oakville, 12 to AlbionCenter/Rexdale, 12 to Brampton.

Impacts?

GO would need to be completely rethought. My proposal would cannibalize most of GO's busiest markets (Lakeshore West, Oakville->Union; Lakeshore East, Pickering->Union; Georgetown, Bramalea->Union).

The TTC's surface network downtown would need to get rethought as well. People like Steve Munro continually insist the DRL and the 501/504 serve totally different markets but I don't believe that. Maybe the streetcars wont get completely cannibalized, but surely travel demands will change substantially. Quite detailed modelling would be necessary to figure out how exactly the surface network would need to change.

Diminutive, your reconceptualization of the GO system as an RER style network is fascinating and something that absolutely must be developed in the coming decades.

That said, what happens to the regular Lakeshore railway tracks going through Union? Are these replaced by the underground DRL along Queen-Front?

Also, the DRL routing you have proposed doesn't appear to be very effective at diverting traffic away from Union, as passengers wishing to travel on the YUS line have no choice but to transfer at Union. Would it not be best to keep the Weston-Don Mills tracks along Queen and leave the Lakeshore lines to travel through Union?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Dimunitive: With no fewer than 8 branches, your plan looks like an operational nightmare. I cant imagine the TTC would ever want to operate that.

 

[diminutive]

Dimunitive: With no fewer than 8 branches, your plan looks like an operational nightmare. I cant imagine the TTC would ever want to operate that.

It's not such a big deal, suburban networks are usually highly branched. Line A of the RER has 5 branches, so does the Washington Metro's Blue-Orange-Silver line. As I said, if I did the map again, I'd get rid of the Malvern branch. That would be 7 branches (3 East, 4 West). With computerized train control it should be perfectly doable.

I'd also be completely okay with abandoning the Pearson spur, converting it into a self contained people mover, which would make it 3 branches per direction, which is totally common.

The TTC may not want to operate it, but the TTC doesn't want to operate driverless trains without drivers... They're hardly at the cutting edge of railway technology and management.

Diminutive, your reconceptualization of the GO system as an RER style network is fascinating and something that absolutely must be developed in the coming decades.

That said, what happens to the regular Lakeshore railway tracks going through Union? Are these replaced by the underground DRL along Queen-Front?

Also, the DRL routing you have proposed doesn't appear to be very effective at diverting traffic away from Union, as passengers wishing to travel on the YUS line have no choice but to transfer at Union. Would it not be best to keep the Weston-Don Mills tracks along Queen and leave the Lakeshore lines to travel through Union?

Well, I'm a big believer in hubs. Having all of Toronto's radial routes meet in one station seems ideal to me. That said, if more detailed modelling work shows that pedestrian flows within Union Station would just become unmanageable, then the core tunnel could intersect elsewhere.

A new Union station could also look like these concepts of a new Lakeshore tunnel, just probably shorter. Though this obviously wont happen and I'm maybe abusing the concept of 'fantasy' maps, it would be great to build a new Union station like this and extend the Yonge-University line into it to create a cross platform interchange. Not gonna happen, but would be nice.

Regardless, I'd imagine the current rail corridor would stay more or less as is. 'Regional' GO services & VIA would still use it.