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Transit City: Sheppard East Debate

Anybody notice the mistakes on the map provided in today's article in The Star?


$950M for new light rail line

b56c2f554e40869d468b0fa377e1.jpeg
 
Mistakes? looks like the scarborough 'malvern' lrt is on meadowvale instead of morningside, the go line is also in the wrong spot,
 
waterloowarrior said:
What happened to the original cost estimate of $555 million including vehicles?
http://www.ttc.ca/postings/gso-comrpt/documents/report/f3138/_conv.htm
Click to expand...

Comparing
LRT and Subway Construction Costs

What is the Cost of Building an LRT Line?
Underground: $130 million to $160 million per kilometre
At grade: $30 million to $50 million per kilometre

...including the cost of vehicles.

As Toronto has not embraced LRT construction until the release of the Transit City plan, it is necessary to look at other cities. The summary for each example has had annually compounded inflation added to the actual cost at a rate of 2.5% to make a fair comparison with 2008 dollars. All costs quoted were converted to Canadian dollars using an approximate exchange rate in effect when the line was completed (stated in each case).

Transit City Proposal

$42.6 million per kilometre above ground, vehicles included
$142.8 million per kilometre tunnelled, vehicles included

From the proposal outlined on March 21, 2007 it was estimated that the following would be the costs for each line, including vehicles:

Don Mills: $675 million for 17.6 km, or $38.4 million per kilometre
Eglinton Crosstown: $2280 million for 30.8 km, or $74 million per kilometre
Etobicoke-Finch West: $835 million for 17.9 km, or $46.7 million per kilometre
Jane: $630 million for 16.5 km, or $38.2 million per kilometre
Scarborough Malvern: $630 million for 15.0 km, or $42 million per kilometre
Sheppard East: $555 million for 13.6 km, or $40.8 million per kilometre
Waterfront West: $540 million for 11.0 km, or $49.1 million per kilometre
The Eglinton Crosstown line will have about one third of its route underground, and this accounts for its greater per kilometre cost. Taking the average for all the other lines, we get a cost of just under $42.6 million per kilometre. If we use this figure as the cost per kilometre for 20 km of the Eglinton Crosstown route, the remaining 10 km will cost about $142.8 million per kilometre for the underground portion.

http://lrt.daxack.ca/LRTvsHRT/CostCompare.html
 
There is no reason why there should be this transfer from Subway to LRT. I would personally prefer a subway but since LRT is what is going to be built both East and West of the Sheppard line, the subway portion should be converted to LRT until a day in the future when capacity is reached and a subway is funded.

The easiest way to do it without closing down the subway for months without an alternative would be to finish the East portion of the LRT first, and then lay down temporary track along Sheppard to Yonge St at street level.

Once the LRT begins running, and covering all stops above ground that the subway would, they could then close the subway down for a year or so while they modified the stations and built and entry portal for the LRT.

A raised track above the subway track would be built to fit the LRT and would slope up at the stations so that the doors are at platform level.

Once the modifications are complete, you'd have an LRT line running all the way from Yonge to the Zoo with about 50% of it underground.

This should be done before building a Sheppard West LRT or in unison with the subway to LRT retrofit so that it all opens together.
 
Those and, Morningside Ave. is marked as Neilson Rd., the RT is also shifted to the right as well as the GO line, and the spur along Morningside is no longer existent.
 
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MetroMan said:
There is no reason why there should be this transfer from Subway to LRT. I would personally prefer a subway but since LRT is what is going to be built both East and West of the Sheppard line, the subway portion should be converted to LRT until a day in the future when capacity is reached and a subway is funded.

The easiest way to do it without closing down the subway for months without an alternative would be to finish the East portion of the LRT first, and then lay down temporary track along Sheppard to Yonge St at street level.

Once the LRT begins running, and covering all stops above ground that the subway would, they could then close the subway down for a year or so while they modified the stations and built and entry portal for the LRT.

A raised track above the subway track would be built to fit the LRT and would slope up at the stations so that the doors are at platform level.

Once the modifications are complete, you'd have an LRT line running all the way from Yonge to the Zoo with about 50% of it underground.

This should be done before building a Sheppard West LRT or in unison with the subway to LRT retrofit so that it all opens together.
Click to expand...



i agree. there should be a continuous LRT from downsview station to the east end near the zoo. no transfer!
 
MetroMan said:
There is no reason why there should be this transfer from Subway to LRT. I would personally prefer a subway but since LRT is what is going to be built both East and West of the Sheppard line, the subway portion should be converted to LRT until a day in the future when capacity is reached and a subway is funded.

The easiest way to do it without closing down the subway for months without an alternative would be to finish the East portion of the LRT first, and then lay down temporary track along Sheppard to Yonge St at street level.

Once the LRT begins running, and covering all stops above ground that the subway would, they could then close the subway down for a year or so while they modified the stations and built and entry portal for the LRT.

A raised track above the subway track would be built to fit the LRT and would slope up at the stations so that the doors are at platform level.

Once the modifications are complete, you'd have an LRT line running all the way from Yonge to the Zoo with about 50% of it underground.

This should be done before building a Sheppard West LRT or in unison with the subway to LRT retrofit so that it all opens together.
Click to expand...

A year to convert? I reckon it could be done in a week.
 
The entire tunnel from Yonge to Don Mills??

The LRT's can't use the subway tracks and then there's a lot of infrastructure (over head power wires) to go in. I think a year is optimistic.
 
MetroMan said:
There is no reason why there should be this transfer from Subway to LRT. I would personally prefer a subway but since LRT is what is going to be built both East and West of the Sheppard line, the subway portion should be converted to LRT until a day in the future when capacity is reached and a subway is funded.

The easiest way to do it without closing down the subway for months without an alternative would be to finish the East portion of the LRT first, and then lay down temporary track along Sheppard to Yonge St at street level.

Once the LRT begins running, and covering all stops above ground that the subway would, they could then close the subway down for a year or so while they modified the stations and built and entry portal for the LRT.

A
Click to expand...

Thats a total fantasy,:rolleyes: there is no way anyone in their right of mine would even consider doing away with a fairly new expensive existing subway line to replace it with a slower less efficient LRT line, just to please certain individuals that would dislike tranfering to a different transit line in an underground station.:eek:
 
MetroMan said:
The entire tunnel from Yonge to Don Mills??

The LRT's can't use the subway tracks and then there's a lot of infrastructure (over head power wires) to go in. I think a year is optimistic.
Click to expand...

The LRT's can use the subway tracks, they are the same gauge. But if they where to convert the line then it could be done by shutting down parts if it at one time and operating service on a single track, this would allow for service to be maintained.

But I don't think the line should be converted, as it would involve spending money to provide the same service as is there now. It would almost be politically impossible as well.
 
Converting the subway to LRT is far from a total fantasy, and it's been considered inside and outside of the transit planning agencies. For the reasons mentioned, it has been rejected -- just not worth the money or inconvenience.

Slower? Why would it be? LRT and subway vehicles in a tunnel can move at the same speed. Less efficient? Well, the operating costs might be higher, but the headways could be shorter and transfers would be eliminated, so not really less efficient either.

It's the sort of change that would make sense if you could do it magically for no money and in no time, but in the real world, it doesn't add up.
 
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