JayBeeGooner
Active Member
^^You forget about wheel to rail interface. Tram-trains are built to be compatible with mainline railways. The Spirit will not be able to run on mainline railways.
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Tram/Train Hybrid Technology
- Thread starter pw20
- Start date
dowlingm
Senior Member
According to this Dualis vehicles are differently structured to take bigger impacts
http://www.alstom.com/transport/pro...tram-trains-citadis-dualis-and-regio-citadis/
CapitalSeven - do you have a source for the assertion Spirit is from the Dualis fork of the family?
http://www.alstom.com/transport/pro...tram-trains-citadis-dualis-and-regio-citadis/
CapitalSeven - do you have a source for the assertion Spirit is from the Dualis fork of the family?
Electrify
Senior Member
Is that really a thing though? Other than internet discussions and a poorly sourced Wikipedia article, I have never found any info suggesting that light rails are physically different from heavy rails. In Cleveland, both metro trains and light rail vehicles share the same tracks along a portion of the route (both use overhead power supplies), and I've read that the Gloucester trains were transported to the Davisville yard via our streetcar tracks.
mpd618
Active Member
The usual point isn't anything about the actual rails, it's about FRA and Transport Canada regulations for the kinds of vehicles that are allowed (and when) on mainline railways. Which generally means the train must be bulkier and stronger (and heavier and more expensive) than it would be for urban "light rail" operation. The FRA has been open to relaxing these kinds of regulations in recent years, but I have not heard of similar changes for Transport Canada.
smallspy
Senior Member
Not so much, but there can be very serious differences in wheel profile. For instance, Toronto's streetcars have a much wider wheel tread and chunkier flange with more of an angle on the tread itself than standard train wheels have.
As for the Gloucester subway cars, they were transported on streetcar tracks - but riding on idler trucks that sported streetcar wheels. Subway wheels are much closer to standard railway wheels, although they have more of an angle on the tread as well.
Dan
Toronto, Ont.
rbt
Senior Member
Would it take more than a couple of hours in a maintenance bay to change from one set of wheels to another?
Aronymous
New Member
CapitalSeven
Senior Member
Just looking at it. If you go through Alstom's brochures, and then look at the illustrations and literature about the vehicle Ottawa is buying, you'll see it's essentially the same thing. The Spirit seems to be a derivation of that, rather than the Citadis tram running in several cities in Europe.
Found this press release which I probably read last year: http://www.alstom.com/press-centre/2013/2/alstom-to-provide-34-light-rail-vehicles-and-maintenance-services-for-ottawa-/
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TOareaFan
Superstar
Seems Glasgow is now considering a Tram-Train link to their airport.
This sort of application seems to make a lot of sense for this. Heavy rail infrastructure exists in a lot of cities that link places that used to make more sense but don't quite get to the places that today make more sense.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/glasgow-airport-rail-link-proposals-announced-1-3959031
So, in the case of Glasgow, there exists heavy rail between Glasgow Central and the centre of the Town of Paisley (the municiaplity where the airport is) but does not get to the airport. So these vehicles will run on existing heavy rail lines to Paisley then onto a newly built light rail corridor that gets taken into the airport property.
A canadian application might be (for instance) Montreal PET airport. There exists a heavy rail corridor that goes to Dorval station and then west to Ontario........while it gets near the airport it does not get to the airport....so vehicles of this sort would run in that corridor to Dorval then divert to a new light rail corridor at the airport (where, as I understand it, a station has already been roughed in).
This sort of application seems to make a lot of sense for this. Heavy rail infrastructure exists in a lot of cities that link places that used to make more sense but don't quite get to the places that today make more sense.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/glasgow-airport-rail-link-proposals-announced-1-3959031
So, in the case of Glasgow, there exists heavy rail between Glasgow Central and the centre of the Town of Paisley (the municiaplity where the airport is) but does not get to the airport. So these vehicles will run on existing heavy rail lines to Paisley then onto a newly built light rail corridor that gets taken into the airport property.
A canadian application might be (for instance) Montreal PET airport. There exists a heavy rail corridor that goes to Dorval station and then west to Ontario........while it gets near the airport it does not get to the airport....so vehicles of this sort would run in that corridor to Dorval then divert to a new light rail corridor at the airport (where, as I understand it, a station has already been roughed in).
smallspy
Senior Member
Considering the proximity of the Airport to the rail corridor.....why bother? The roadway network around the airport (and to be honest, most airports) doesn't really lend itself to any semblance of localized traffic. In this case, it really kind of seems to be a solution looking for a problem.
Dan
Toronto, Ont.
TOareaFan
Superstar
which case? Glasgow or my attempt at giving a canadian example in Montreal?
smallspy
Senior Member
Sorry, I was referring specifically to PET and using the existing CN/CP corridor to the south of the airport.
Now, if you were to suggest the same using the Doney Spur to the north of PET - that might be a situation that would warrant investigating whether some sort of tram-train is appropriate.
Dan
Toronto, Ont.
TOareaFan
Superstar
As you know, I am far from a technical expert on this sort of stuff and was just trying to come up with a local(ish) example of what I was describing on how I think (emphasis on think) this technology could be used....it was more of "concept" and I made the mistake of extending into the world of actuality.
So, the concept really is:
Whether it is old world industrial places like Glasgow or newer places like Canada......the heavy rail existing infrastructure many not go quite to where the current need is but gets most of the way there....so these things, in a way, can help bridge that gap.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
They are now being used in Germany as well. They make infinite sense.............streetcar/LRT service in local areas and then use the existing main railways for the faster stretches to the city cores.
smallspy
Senior Member
They are being used in far more locations than Germany. But most of the time their purpose is exactly the opposite of providing service to the downtown core - It's usually to service outlying suburbs or neighbouring communities cheaply, using existing rights-of-way or infrastructure.
To make it even more local, a potential example of this would be, for instance, a line between Markham and Pickering that ran locally whilst in each built-up area, but along the CN Halton Sub between the two. This, of course, assumes that there was a regulatory mechanism in Canada to allow it - which at this point, there isn't.
Dan
Toronto, Ont.