Toronto Zoo...more expensive for 905ers?

[samsonyuen]

From: www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs...&t=TS_Home
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Zoo may take bite out of 905 visitors
Jul. 8, 2006. 01:00 AM
PAUL MOLONEY
CITY HALL BUREAU

Visiting the Toronto Zoo?
Then bring your driver's licence, if you're from Toronto — or be prepared to pay the higher admission fee being considered for out-of-towners.
Toronto Councillor Joe Mihevc, who came up with the two-tiered admissions proposal, argues Toronto residents have already paid for the zoo through their property taxes, and deserve a break on admission. "The system I'm proposing recognizes that 416 folks already pay through their property taxes," Mihevc said yesterday. "Residents of Toronto are paying twice; they pay through their admission and they also pay through their property taxes."
But that leaves residents of the 905 and beyond faced with the prospect of paying higher fees to see the elephants, lions, kangaroos and other animals at the deficit-saddled wildlife park.
And that doesn't sit well with regional politicians.
"You've got to be kidding me," said Roger Anderson, chair of Durham Region, when told of the plan.
"If they want to punish people for visiting Toronto, I guess they can.
"They'll have to explain it to the rest of the province."
The Toronto Zoo is expected to lose $11.8 million this year, up from the $11.3 million it lost last year. And, with the city footing the bill, Toronto's budget committee was only too ready to adopt Mihevc's motion that the zoo board — which consists entirely of city councillors — look into the two-tiered admissions proposal.
"We're requesting that they consider it," said Councillor David Soknacki, budget committee chair. "The goal is to get the revenue numbers up and recover some of the city's investment."
The zoo will examine the idea and file a report, said Robin Hale, the zoo's chief operating officer.
"This would be a new thing and we'd have to take a look at the feasibility," Hale said. "It all comes down to the perception of the value for what you pay. We have to make sure we keep the zoo affordable and good value for the money."If the scheme passes, city residents — who make up about a quarter of the zoo's visitors now — could pay a couple of dollars less than out-of-town visitors to the zoo, on Toronto's northeastern edge.
The zoo now charges $19 for adults and youths; under the two-tier scheme prices might rise to $21 for adults who can't prove they live here.
But that's a path fraught with danger, warned Councillor Glenn De Baeremaeker, who sits on the zoo's board.
"In an attempt to raise more money, we could actually lose money," De Baeremaeker cautioned. "I can see someone on the north side of Steeles saying, `What, you want to charge me extra? I'm going to go to Canada's Wonderland.
`Screw you, Toronto.'"
Canada's Wonderland, along with the zoo's other major competitors — Marineland, the CN Tower, African Lion Safari, Ontario Place, Wild Water Kingdom, and the Ontario Science Centre — all have a one-tier admissions price.
But, in the United States, local residents pay lower prices to visit the Milwaukee County Zoo and some Chicago museums, including the Field Museum. And admission to the San Diego Zoo and Wild Animal Park is cheaper for people with Southern California zip codes.
Councillor Norm Kelly, a zoo board member, said he encountered two-tier pricing on a visit to Beijing's Forbidden City.
"There was one price for the Chinese and another price for everybody else," Kelly said.
"Frankly I didn't like it. I'm not a fan of that system and I wouldn't support it here."

 

[rbtaylor]

Not surprising. When it originally opened a majority of visitors were from Toronto. Now Toronto is a much smaller portion of the visitors.

This is one of those times that the province should step in and match Toronto's subsidy on behalf of the other regions -- the same as they request that Toronto kick into GO Transit.

 

[Mark Dowling]

What worries me is that this will cascade to other City and private attractions - have we decided we don't want tourists any more?

Seems a bit small time to me.

That said, it could be worse. The Zoo could be under investigation like Vancouver's...

 

[fiendishlibrarian]

Expect a Charter challenge any day now from aggreived 905ers.

 

[wyliepoon]

Maybe the people proposing a two-tier admission fee system won't be in such hot water if the admission fee is raised for everybody, but a substantial discount can be given to TTC Metropass holders (like Joey Cuppa's MAP program), or families holding a TTC Day Pass on weekends.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

If they are serious about recovering costs, they should be looking at tolling the Gardiner for any user who doesn't hail from the 416 (and ditto the TTC). The zoo is peanuts.

AoD

 

[ahrvojic]

I appreciate you probably aren't being completely serious, but who do you think fills all those office towers on a daily basis? Hipsters? Toronto proper doesn't exist in a vacuum and let's not pretend that the province has no part in funding those services even if it may be inadequate.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

The Zoo has done almost nothing in the past decade to lure people in. Many schools have also virtually stopped going on field trips.

 

[jeicow]

^ They have done a lot (ie. waterpark/kids area) but those are more aimed at drawing families over schools. I think the problem is that it's starting to price itself out of field trips, especially when you consider that most schools have a large population of lower income students.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Yeah, I can really see people lining up early to get into Zellers Discovery Zone. The group discount for kids is $9.35, but that's not the main reason school groups aren't going as much. It could be lower, though...if you don't lure kids at a young age, what are the odds they'll want to come back later in life? The Zoo will then become a regular tourist attraction instead of a place that everyone visits on a regular basis. And when they had the pandas and koalas, everyone and their brother went to the zoo to see them. The monorail closing didn't help, either.

 

[unimaginative2]

If they're going to toll the Gardiner, it should definitely be a "gateway" toll just east of the 427. They could maybe make some kind of provision to prevent people from crowding onto the Queensway to avoid the toll, too.

 

[jeicow]

Yeah, I can really see people lining up early to get into Zellers Discovery Zone.

I think that was their way of trying to draw families back to the zoo. When you consider that they were charging upwards of $46 for a family of 4 ($15/adult, $8/kid) in the early 00's just to see animals then you can see why they needed to provide something else to make families want to come back.

The group discount for kids is $9.35, but that's not the main reason school groups aren't going as much. It could be lower, though...if you don't lure kids at a young age, what are the odds they'll want to come back later in life?

Then isn't that one reason against the 905 money grab? Not to say that TO doesn't have young kids, but (unless the next census says otherwise) there are more in the 905 so isn't it a stupid idea to try and stop them from coming and thus not really drawing them back again as they get older.

And when they had the pandas and koalas, everyone and their brother went to the zoo to see them.

You have to remember those were both temporary exchanges with other zoos. TO hasn't done a serious one since the World Series White Lions and that one got the people too. The climate and upkeep costs of keeping animals like those, or anything else exotic, just kills the chance of ever having them as permanent exhibits. I agree that the zoo seriously needs to invisit it getting a big draw animal (like the Komodos did in the late 90s) in order to get people back. I think doing that instead of doing this stupid two-tier system will be better overall. In the summer of the Komodo there were at least 1/2 hour lines to get into the Australasia Pavillion on weekdays and upwards of 1.5 hours on the weekends. That got the people, but there hasn't been something like that in ages.

The monorail closing didn't help, either.

After all the payments they did after the accident, and the fact that more people would label it as "dangerous" I doubt the monorail really could ever recoup in the first few years. I think it would have been amazing if it was still in existance but that being said, I wouldn't be all that surprised if it was stopped even after they brought it back in service.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

"You have to remember those were both temporary exchanges with other zoos."

Yes, I know, that's the whole point...what has the Zoo done in the last 9 years to attract people? Zellers Discovery Zone...and...the Serengeti exhibit maybe, which is just more grass. Komodos were in 1997...that's the last time I went to the Zoo, and it cost a fortune. Lately, they only make the news when they raise the price of admission or bitch about threatening bankruptcy and potentially starving animals.

$10 does not at all price itself out for school trips, but the issue is that many schools don't send their kids out on any trips at all now, they're too busy worrying about chartering buses or fitting in computer literacy classes and standardized tests or going on strike. The monorail, Zellers-sponsored stuff, newsmaking fiscal troubles, etc., are all nails in the coffin of the zoo in the public consciousness...where's all the 80s-style propaganda? No one cares about eco-anything anymore, the animals in the zoo aren't exotic anymore, we take absolutely no pride in the zoo. I'd like to think it doesn't need to, but the zoo needs something flashy to draw attention to itself...it was doing this year after year but all this stopped after amalgamation, forcing it to rely on reputation. But it's enough of a trek to the zoo and the grounds are vast enough that people have to make a real effort to experience everything it has to offer and a growing reputation of monorail crashes, cheesy attempts to become a theme park, and poor management hurts.

The two-tier fare structure is stupid...they should just slash admission in half.

 

[drum118]

Geee!!!!!!!!!! 70% of visitors are from outside the 416 area and the city is crying the blues.

What will they say when the 70% fall to less than 50% in total as how they going to fund the Zoo then?

If Toronto cannot support the Zoo, then they should close it.

If the non 416 stop going to the Zoo cause by dual price, how much is Toronto going to loose by not having visitors coming to the city in the first place?

Sure hope Toronto love the blood bath once they start charging their vistors more than their residents.

Then "Why" are the residents not supporting the Zoo in the first place by going to it"?

 

[rbtaylor]

Then "Why" are the residents not supporting the Zoo in the first place by going to it"?

The answer to this is really obvious if you look at the demographics of Toronto and the surrounding 905/519/705. 70% of the potential customer base is outside of the 416.