Richmond Hill Yonge Line 1 North Subway Extension | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

The problem isn't the politicians per se, but the electorate. And there's no way for the "intellectuals" to "take over" without convincing voters.

IMHO, the rubber is going to hit the road next year when Metrolinx's investment strategy comes out.
If people have brains and accept the need for some form of road pricing, a transit sales tax etc., a lot of transit will get moving forward quickly, with Yonge at the front of the pack.

If TO's mayor leads a rally against it and the electorate continue to buy into the riddiculous notion they can have all the transit in the world for free (or that they don't need transit, because their Escalade gets them where they need to go), the city's already lagging transit will fall further behind and it's only a matter of time until the GTA falls off the global map as a place worth investing in. I'm not saying TO is about to become Detroit but the time to put up or shut up is definitely coming.

 

[xtremesniper]

As far as I'm concerned, it should not be up to the politicians to make decisions like this, and therefore by extension it should not be the electorate who make the decisions either.

Residents and business owners are welcome to contribute to the decision making process through normal means like town hall meetings, etc. But politicians are corrupt and selfish by their own nature, and they have better things to figure out than things like transit. You can't honestly tell me that someone who goes to law school has any clue about how to build a decent transit plan for the future.

Residents don't know what they want either because, they too, are selfish by nature. Why should they care about a solid transit plan if it's not going right through their neck of the woods?

Disconnect from them all. And that's what I meant by letting the intellectuals take over. The current decision making power is in the wrong hands. Every time Ford opens his mouth to talk about transit (or anything for that matter), I get a strong urge to stab things.

 

[Tulse]

Ah yes, we need the philosopher kings of transit. Why bother with silly notions like democracy when the unwashed masses keep insisting on actually participating?

 

[xtremesniper]

Who is participating? Only the NIMBYs get off their lazy chairs for enough time to make a peep. Everyone else just assumes things will "fall into place eventually".

Unfortunately, we've run out of "eventually".

Besides, the whole notion of urban planning and transportation planning in this day and age is just a smoke screen. I have relatives involved in urban planning and from what I hear, much of their work goes to waste simply because a politician wants to make a short-sighted decision to make a handful of powerful voters happy. It is not a true democracy until more than 40% of the public actually participates. Until then, it's still controlled by a select few as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Tulse]

Right, you just want it controlled by the right select few, correct?

 

[xtremesniper]

Where did I suggest that? I clearly said I want more participation in the elections if we are to assume that politicians are making decisions for the masses. Most of the "masses" that I've spoken to don't vote because they don't think they are going to be represented either way.

If I saw 75% voting turnout then I'd be more comfortable with some decisions being made, whether I agreed with them or not.

Anyway, we're off-topic now. Point is, the funding is mostly there. Now we just need these politicians to stop twiddling their thumbs and do something for the future, not their term.

 

[Tulse]

Where did I suggest that?

I think it was when you said

As far as I'm concerned, it should not be up to the politicians to make decisions like this, and therefore by extension it should not be the electorate who make the decisions either. [...] Disconnect from them all. And that's what I meant by letting the intellectuals take over. The current decision making power is in the wrong hands.

I see now how that is actually a clarion call for democracy.

 

[xtremesniper]

I made that comment in response to the current situation, which is that the actual people who live and work are not being properly represented in the current system because of a lack of voter turnout. A solution would be either to obtain a greater voter turnout, or take what is clearly broken (transit planning) and revamp how it is done.

I was very clearly suggesting that the actual planning work be done by people who actually know what they are doing, and block politicians from overriding their work without due diligence. Then, after a plan is drafted (or even during the process), have regular town meetings (I did mention this, did I not? Or do you normally just like to take comments out of context?) to gain public opinion and influence in the decision making process.

I'm merely trying to protect from idiots like Ford who come in and in one day completely trash a ready-to-go transit plan that was drafted over a multi-year process.

But yeah, sure, continue to take snippets of my posts and spin them in whatever direction you choose. Good night.

 

[Solid Snake]

Just my personal opinion but reading post saying that Subway is viable for York region over Eglinton and Sheppard is sickening.

Scarborough's population is 60% of York region and the density is way higher than York and yet people will throw flowers on that project and bury subways for that part of the city...

Subways for York 585.9/km2
Subways for Vaughan1,054.0/km2
Subways Richmond Hill 1,838.0/km2

LRT for Scarborough at 3,160.9/km2

 

[Chuck]

Just my personal opinion but reading post saying that Subway is viable for York region over Eglinton and Sheppard is sickening.

Scarborough's population is 60% of York region and the density is way higher than York and yet people will throw flowers on that project and bury subways for that part of the city...

Subways for York 585.9/km2
Subways for Vaughan1,054.0/km2
Subways Richmond Hill 1,838.0/km2

LRT for Scarborough at 3,160.9/km2

Unfair comparison as every municipality in York Region (except for Newmarket) has vast swaths of farmland. The Yonge extension would be located in the most densely populated part of York Region. To be more accurate:

Markham (Thornhill): 2350/km2
Vaughan (Thornhill): 3650/km2
Richmond Hill (south of Major Mack): 2750/km2
Overall today: 2880/km2
If the various development proposals added 50,000 people: 3,700/km2.

The Yonge is extension is not getting more priority over Eglinton as construction has already begun on the Eglinton subway. As for Scarborough, city council has yet again sent a resounding 'NO SUBWAYS FOR SCARBOROUGH' message to the province. Blame city council if you're not pleased, not York Region.

 

[taal]

Here's the big thing regarding a subway extension:

1) There are many jobs along the eastern part of Hi-way 7. With the bus-way one could see a lot of heavy usage on the subway to get to Hi-way 7.

Scarborough has a lot less employment !

2) A lot more employment is forecasted for Hi-way 7 east and potentially Yonge it self. Scarborough is forecasted for 0 if not negative employment growth. Also the amount of employment in Scarborough (SCC) today is already LESS THAN Hi-way 7 East.

To me this is reason enough but there is more:

3) Is Scarborough willing to build hundreds of condos along the subway, I don't think so, while York region is. Scarborough may be willing for more employment but they won't get it ... due to many reasons, there hasn't been a new office in the SCC area for a decade plus.

Eglinton is honestly similar in many ways; I can't see much more employment.

 

[EnviroTO]

Just my personal opinion but reading post saying that Subway is viable for York region over Eglinton and Sheppard is sickening.

Scarborough's population is 60% of York region and the density is way higher than York and yet people will throw flowers on that project and bury subways for that part of the city...

Subways for York 585.9/km2
Subways for Vaughan1,054.0/km2
Subways Richmond Hill 1,838.0/km2

LRT for Scarborough at 3,160.9/km2

A Yonge extension will get more ridership. You are quoting the densities of places but those densities are irrelevant because not all of the area in the boundaries in each are developed, and the subways are subways to York Region, not through York region. No subway is proposed for highway 7 which would be a subway through York, similar to what is proposed on Sheppard. A comparison to the subways to York region would be a subway from Kennedy to Scarborough Centre. There is the demand for that, but unfortunately that route which has the right ridership demands to justify a subway isn't the focus of this mayor, the previous mayor, or the premier, and even most the anti-Sheppard LRT folks aren't pushing that.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Just my personal opinion but reading post saying that Subway is viable for York region over Eglinton and Sheppard is sickening.

Scarborough's population is 60% of York region and the density is way higher than York and yet people will throw flowers on that project and bury subways for that part of the city...

Subways for York 585.9/km2
Subways for Vaughan1,054.0/km2
Subways Richmond Hill 1,838.0/km2

LRT for Scarborough at 3,160.9/km2

I agree.

 

[Chuck]

Also, don't forget that Scarborough already has the subway, and has far superior GO service than any part of York Region.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

Well said. All of it.

We need to stop bitching around and get building. The more we wait, the harder and more expensive it's going to be, and then we'll only end up making pathetic cuts because we didn't have the foresight to plan ahead to actually budget a proper system out. That's what we have now. We didn't plan ahead and now we're just scraping for cash to build pointless projects and bicker about LRTs vs subways when in reality if we had a proper plan, we would have had subways and the cash to do it.

Politicians are clueless. It's time intellectuals took over.

For what it's worth the ROW planned for Yonge to be used by VIVA (and YRT/Steeles) could well have been in the final construction phases had we not suddenly changed our minds and wanted the subway and skipping the intermediate transit services. Had we just stopped bitching and started building back then we would have had something tangible today, rather than future promises.