Richmond Hill Yonge Line 1 North Subway Extension | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[xtremesniper]

I think the only reason why the DRL is only wanted by people on these forums is because only people on these forums even know the plan exists despite the fact that its existence originates from before I was born.

The best way I can think of to get the word out about the DRL (or any transit plans for that matter) is to get it in front of the average joe and to let people who don't care or have time to browse the web for transit enthusiast forums know that such a plan simply needs public outcry to gain traction as a political machine. Once this becomes a bigger public issue and votes become at play, people will start taking it more seriously.

Put some ads up even in the TTC itself, or at major pedestrian centres like Dundas Square and get the word out. Once my parents start asking "What is the DRL?" you know you have succeeded. Until then, they will simply say "man, the TTC sucks. I'm going to take the car" instead of "man, the TTC sucks. I really wish they'd get on building that DRL by now".

 

[jje1000]

I think the only reason why the DRL is only wanted by people on these forums is because only people on these forums even know the plan exists despite the fact that its existence originates from before I was born.

The best way I can think of to get the word out about the DRL (or any transit plans for that matter) is to get it in front of the average joe and to let people who don't care or have time to browse the web for transit enthusiast forums know that such a plan simply needs public outcry to gain traction as a political machine. Once this becomes a bigger public issue and votes become at play, people will start taking it more seriously.

Put some ads up even in the TTC itself, or at major pedestrian centres like Dundas Square and get the word out. Once my parents start asking "What is the DRL?" you know you have succeeded. Until then, they will simply say "man, the TTC sucks. I'm going to take the car" instead of "man, the TTC sucks. I really wish they'd get on building that DRL by now".

That would require the backing of a person or organization with political influence- I'm sure some exists out there who would support the DRL (maybe the Toronto Board of Trade), but hasn't taken further steps to get the word out other than a few "press releases".

 

[xtremesniper]

That would require the backing of a person or organization with political influence- I'm sure some exists out there who would support the DRL (maybe the Toronto Board of Trade), but hasn't taken further steps to get the word out other than a few "press releases".

Yeah and no one reads press releases unless they're actively involved in the discussion in the first place.

I'm talking about a community like this pooling some money for the purpose of getting some bright and very to the point ads around town in heavy pedestrian areas or transit stations to simply make people aware that such an option is in the works and that the only thing stopping it from going forward is public interest. It's similar to what has happened with the Yonge Extension when a group of citizens decided to get the word out on the idea that they can change (what was at the time) the Viva Blue busway between Finch station and Hwy 7 into a subway instead. And now here we are, people got excited and politicians got on board and even made it an election topic.

All I'm saying is it would go a long way and probably wouldn't even cost that much. It would just take effort.

 

[M II A II R II K]

And unlike the Vaughn extension, most of this extension would be in the 905 so the Province and the York region should pay for the bulk of it.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

I believe the extension would be about 2/3 in York Region vs. 1/3 Toronto whereas Spadina was nearly 3/4 in Toronto.

York Region paid 40% of the municipal portion on Spadina which is more than their fare share so there's no reason they wouldn't do the same this time. That's the least of the obstacles here and kind of redundant.

I agree there should be greater awareness of the DRL; it seems like with Transit City done the only things on the radar are the Eglinton LRT and the mythical, legendary Sheppard extension. Given Ford's suburban bias it would take a heck of a campaign to get the DRL in the same discussion as Sheppard...

Because Yonge is contingent on government funding (as opposed to Sheppard) I'd say it's still the most likely to move forward soon. You're best bet for DRL is to get it on Metrolinx's radar (via the city, I guess) since even if they get money it's not going to Sheppard, thanks' to Ford's agreement with the province.

 

[M II A II R II K]

The already existing GO connections to the Eglinton LRT could be used, they go to Union anyway. The DRL is really a CBD relief line.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

For those that say the extension to 7 will remove hoardes of busses from the roads, think about this. Once the subway is extended to Steeles we loose the Steeles bus (and others) from Yonge. However by extending North to RHC we really aren't removing that many riders from Yonge North of wherever the subway terminates. VIVA blue brings hoards of riders south from Newmarket to the Subway and having a terminal at 7 will not remove those busses, only transfer them further north.

 

[BMO]

For those that say the extension to 7 will remove hoardes of busses from the roads, think about this. Once the subway is extended to Steeles we loose the Steeles bus (and others) from Yonge. However by extending North to RHC we really aren't removing that many riders from Yonge North of wherever the subway terminates. VIVA blue brings hoards of riders south from Newmarket to the Subway and having a terminal at 7 will not remove those busses, only transfer them further north.

...yes...and the extension to steeles won't remove the steeles buses or the cummer buses, it will just move the transfer north to steeles...they will still be running.

North of steeles the same thing will happen to the clark and royal orchard, and centre/ john buses, as well as the miliken mills buses.

The only exception would be the Yonge st local and VIVA blue which would continue NORTH of highway 7, and not going down through the most congested area of the route.

I don't get what the point of this redundant statement is? :S

 

[Markster]

For those that say the extension to 7 will remove hoardes of busses from the roads, think about this. Once the subway is extended to Steeles we loose the Steeles bus (and others) from Yonge. However by extending North to RHC we really aren't removing that many riders from Yonge North of wherever the subway terminates. VIVA blue brings hoards of riders south from Newmarket to the Subway and having a terminal at 7 will not remove those busses, only transfer them further north.

Of course we're not removing buses from the road north of the subway terminus. No one is expecting there to be fewer buses north of Highway 7. The extension will probably increase the number of buses, as subway access becomes more convenient, and more people want to get to it. North of Highway 7 does not currently have the log-jam conditions seen further south.

South of Steeles, the number of buses will virtually evaporate, as all Cummer/Steeles/VIVA routes re-orient to drop people at more logical stops.

The main problem will be that VIVA will probably still run buses to Steeles, to provide a non-double fare option. This will only be ultimately solved with a proper zone/distance fare solution.

 

[gweed123]

Of course we're not removing buses from the road north of the subway terminus. No one is expecting there to be fewer buses north of Highway 7. The extension will probably increase the number of buses, as subway access becomes more convenient, and more people want to get to it. North of Highway 7 does not currently have the log-jam conditions seen further south.

South of Steeles, the number of buses will virtually evaporate, as all Cummer/Steeles/VIVA routes re-orient to drop people at more logical stops.

The main problem will be that VIVA will probably still run buses to Steeles, to provide a non-double fare option. This will only be ultimately solved with a proper zone/distance fare solution.

Ottawa is applying this exact same philosophy with its LRT system. Right now there are BRT routes that go from one side of the city to the other, through downtown. This results in a huge amount of what basically amounts to deadheading during rush hour, because the counter-peak demand is much lower than the number of buses required. In fact, many buses in the AM rush hour once they reach downtown go out of service until they reach the end of the route, and then they turn around and start again.

What building the LRT system will allow the BRT buses to do is to shorten the route (they will run to the nearest terminal LRT station instead of the whole way downtown), which reduces the amount of time spent deadheading, and will allow either a) fewer buses to run on the route, or b) increase the frequency of the route. Either way, it's a win. The exact same philosophy applies to the stretch of Yonge between Finch and Highway 7.

Having a subway train be 9/10 empty in the AM rush hour going north to Highway 7 isn't nearly as big of an expense of having the equivalent number of buses being 9/10 empty.

 

[Disparishun]

No one is expecting there to be fewer buses north of Highway 7. The extension will probably increase the number of buses, as subway access becomes more convenient, and more people want to get to it. North of Highway 7 does not currently have the log-jam conditions seen further south.

Isn't there to be a dedicated centre bus lane rapidway going north from 7?

 

[gweed123]

Isn't there to be a dedicated centre bus lane rapidway going north from 7?

Yes, which is why not having to have buses run south of Highway 7 will increase the frequency of the routes north of Highway 7 (same number of buses + less distance to travel = greater frequency).

 

[Electrify]

If you're saying you want to see riders going from 7 to Royal Orchard, I don't know how significant that traffic will be but I'm sure there will be lots of local traffic overall.

This shows a bit of a fallacy that pops up on this thread, namely the assumption that all the riders will board at Highway 7, clog the system, and finally get off at Bloor or Union.

What about serving people who want to go from Clark to Eglinton? Or Steeles to York Mills?
What about providing a better option for people who work at Bloor but now have to backtrack north from Union if they take GO?
etc. etc.

GO will remain the best way to get down to Union and the financial district but it only helps the overall transit network to have both a cheaper "local" service and a pricier "express" service. Choice is good for consumers and this sort of system would provide a much better overall system, I suspect.

[Personally, I live just north of Steeles and often forego transit simply because of the double fare issue and/or the hassle of getting to/parking at Finch Station. A subway north of Steeles would make me far more likely to, say, go to midtown on a weekend night or downtown to a ballgame etc. Those few km of non-subway make a huge difference.]

Pretty much this. I predict what will happen is that we will get all day service on the GO line and the Richmond Hill busway completed long before a subway extension. So in 15-20 years, people in northern York Region will take the Viva to Richmond Hill Centre and then the GO from there. Since Thornhill decided to hold out on a busway in favour of a subway, congestion between 7 and Finch is going to become bad enough that people will take the GO to Finch, Sheppard, or Eglinton and transfer to TTC services back to Yonge.

Once/if the subway does make its way to 7, I predict that many people will become comfortable enough with the GO to stay on it for trips downtown, and will only take the subway for more intermediate trips to North York, midtown, and maybe Yorkville.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

Since Thornhill decided to hold out on a busway in favour of a subway, congestion between 7 and Finch is going to become bad enough that people will take the GO to Finch, Sheppard, or Eglinton and transfer to TTC services back to Yonge.
Once/if the subway does make its way to 7, I predict that many people will become comfortable enough with the GO to stay on it for trips downtown, and will only take the subway for more intermediate trips to North York, midtown, and maybe Yorkville.

Just to clarify, Thornhill didn't forego the bus lanes. It was literally the same week York Region council was voting on the BRT expropriations that Move2020 was announced and so they put that on hold. If the subway continues to linger in limbo maybe they'll have to come back to that idea. IIRC, Toronto was also doing a busway from Finch-->Steeles that's on hold and there isn't as much of a point to YRT moving forward if they're still in mixed traffic to Finch. That said, I expect the subway picture will be clearer by 2015, after the Mlinx investment strategy is out and the final Mlinx projects prioritized.

As long as GO only provides Hwy 7-->Union service, there's a huge need being unmet so as important as I think all-day service is on that line, I think the subway is far more important. GO service will do little for development between Finch and Hwy 7, for starters and it's not going to take many buses off the road. As you suggest, it may help people in NORTHERN York Region but there are far more people in SOUTHERN York Region (though, yes, those to the west will be able to take the Spadina line...).

 

[jaycola]

6 months after this report was published I have heard nothing about transit projects for Yonge north of Finch.
I guess 2012 will be another year of failing to address the transportation issues on this "Gateway" to Toronto.