Richmond Hill Yonge Line 1 North Subway Extension | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[wopchop]

Would it be possible to have an extended Sheppard line simply skip the existing Downsview station, stop at a new platform in the immediate area (which would be connected via walkways for pedestrians) and continue on south? There is no law saying that it must connect to the existing platform there. It could then interline with the tracks between Wilson & Downsview.

 

[Jonny5]

A more likely scenario would be to have the westbound Sheppard trains turn south at Downsview and then serve YUS. That way the 'every 2nd train short turned at Downsview' would actually be a Sheppard train.

That can only work if Sheppard is upgraded to TR's. I'd say it's pretty much the least likely possibility.

 

[rbt]

That can only work if Sheppard is upgraded to TR's. I'd say it's pretty much the least likely possibility.

Yup. A short Sheppard extension is cheap because yard space exists (Rockets cannot be stored at Davisville) and we have excess trains (loads of T1s). Basically, those costs are deferred for 15+ years until ridership grows.

It becomes significantly more expensive if you need to toss a few hundred million into rolling stock and yard space.

 

[gweed123]

That can only work if Sheppard is upgraded to TR's. I'd say it's pretty much the least likely possibility.

Not necessarily. They still plan on running T1s on YUS. The biggest issue would be expanding the platforms to accommodate 6 car trainsets. But since they were built for it, and just feature fake walls, it wouldn't be a huge expense.

As for the interlining with YUS, They could do a Spadina-style transfer and have the Sheppard platform on a 45 degree angle to the YUS platform, built to the west, where they would interline at some point between Downsview and Sheppard. The majority of people who would be using Downsview Station if Sheppard was extended there would be transferring to southbound YUS anyway, so having a Spadina-style walkway between them wouldn't be a big deal, because a lot of those transfers would be eliminated because of interlining.

 

[Jonny5]

Not necessarily. They still plan on running T1s on YUS. The biggest issue would be expanding the platforms to accommodate 6 car trainsets. But since they were built for it, and just feature fake walls, it wouldn't be a huge expense.

As for the interlining with YUS, They could do a Spadina-style transfer and have the Sheppard platform on a 45 degree angle to the YUS platform, built to the west, where they would interline at some point between Downsview and Sheppard. The majority of people who would be using Downsview Station if Sheppard was extended there would be transferring to southbound YUS anyway, so having a Spadina-style walkway between them wouldn't be a big deal, because a lot of those transfers would be eliminated because of interlining.

I thought T1s are only staying on YUS until there are enough TRs to displace them.
The T1s don't have ATO and can't operate in that enhanced environment. They could retrofit some, but then wouldn't the whole Sheppard line would need it's signals upgraded too?

Also this arrangement means the YUS short-turn could never be extended past Downsview.

You can come up with a solution to all these problems, but each solution is adding more cost to a plan whose purpose is just to encourage more riders to transfer to an already at capacity line. There's just no reason to push for this arrangement.

 

[BMO]

I thought T1s are only staying on YUS until there are enough TRs to displace them.
The T1s don't have ATO and can't operate in that enhanced environment. They could retrofit some, but then wouldn't the whole Sheppard line would need it's signals upgraded too?

Sheppard was already built with ATC built-in.

 

[EnviroTO]

Yes Markham and the like plan on building tons of office space in the Yonge / Hi-way 7 area

The office space Markham is building, and the office space around Steeles and Victoria Park are better served with the Yonge Extension and the creation of the DRL to Don Mills combined with Viva Green. The ridership on Viva Green would be significant with a DRL to Don Mills but now it is marginal because there isn't much benefit to switch between the Yonge and Sheppard lines versus taking Viva Pink.

 

[Jonny5]

Sheppard was already built with ATC built-in.

I'm amazed someone had the foresight to consider that and that it wasn't cut for budget reasons during construction.

 

[Rainforest]

Would it be possible to have an extended Sheppard line simply skip the existing Downsview station, stop at a new platform in the immediate area (which would be connected via walkways for pedestrians) and continue on south? There is no law saying that it must connect to the existing platform there. It could then interline with the tracks between Wilson & Downsview.

That's certainly possible, but would incur an additional cost, compared to just ending th Sheppard line at Downsview. I don't know how large that additional cost would be.

Some kind of connection between the Sheppard tracks and the Wilson Yard tracks would be built anyway. But a non-revenue connection could do with a single track feeding to the western side of the yard, whereas a regular service connection would require two tracks connected to the existing revenue tracks, and conflicting movements have to be grade-separate.

 

[taal]

The office space Markham is building, and the office space around Steeles and Victoria Park are better served with the Yonge Extension and the creation of the DRL to Don Mills combined with Viva Green. The ridership on Viva Green would be significant with a DRL to Don Mills but now it is marginal because there isn't much benefit to switch between the Yonge and Sheppard lines versus taking Viva Pink.

Yep, but what I was really getting at was:

With this expansion a lot of new offices space is planned (if it actually get's built / full that's another story), look at the sheppard extention and their was 0 new office construction and probably nothing will come out of the entire extention even it it ends up being a subway to SCC.

That's just unexpatable, office use is really what drives transit at the end of the day. You can argue there are some offices in the sheppard / vic park area. Yes that's true, though nothing there is newer then 20+ years old.

 

[Towered]

With York region pushing so hard for this extension, I think it's safe to say it will leapfrog Sheppard as the city's next subway project. We basically have York region to thank for the Spadina extension getting built now.

 

[BMO]

With York region pushing so hard for this extension, I think it's safe to say it will leapfrog Sheppard as the city's next subway project. We basically have York region to thank for the Spadina extension getting built now.

well considering Yonge would be supported by the Province and potentially the Feds, and then Toronto and York Region, I'd say it would definitely tap into more avenues for funding.

I think Yonge, Sheppard and DRL will all get built. I predict Sheppard will be able to capitalize on the private/public partnerships, which could lead to a new precedent for subway construction in the city. All the potential subway routes would have good opportunities for development.

 

[sixrings]

if this does get built then there will be more need for a sheppard west from downsview to yonge link... so people from the west side of the city can get to the yonge line since it will cause even more development at yonge and sheppard...

 

[nfitz]

well considering Yonge would be supported by the Province and potentially the Feds, and then Toronto and York Region, I'd say it would definitely tap into more avenues for funding.

Is Toronto really going to want to contribute any money to this project? Particularly if they go ahead with the pre-build of the extension to Cummer for temporary train storage. I wouldn't be surprised if they offer that up as their contribution.

 

[gweed123]

Is Toronto really going to want to contribute any money to this project? Particularly if they go ahead with the pre-build of the extension to Cummer for temporary train storage. I wouldn't be surprised if they offer that up as their contribution.

I agree. Toronto isn't paying a dime for Transit City, why would they start paying now? I also think that implementing ATO in order to have the capacity to handle the extension is a pretty big contrribution in itself.