Hamilton Westgate on Main | ?m | 8s | Matrix Development Group | HB Design

I don't really understand the constant calls for ground floor retail on these condo buildings in Hamilton. Frankly, there just isn't demand for it. If there was retail at the ground level here, it would remain empty for years and years. 101 Locke is a prime example of this. Look at all the Vranich buildings with ground floor retail, empty.
 
TheHonestMaple said:
I don't really understand the constant calls for ground floor retail on these condo buildings in Hamilton. Frankly, there just isn't demand for it. If there was retail at the ground level here, it would remain empty for years and years. 101 Locke is a prime example of this. Look at all the Vranich buildings with ground floor retail, empty.
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I've said it before, but vacant commercial for a few years is fine. The issue is that this building will be around when I die, despite Hamilton's population likely being double and demand for retail being much higher. It will fill up eventually, but now there will never be retail here.

Additionally it's not even that far off that Main St will likely be a far more welcoming street.

Vrancor is just shitty and doesn't want to really rent out the retail, this isn't Vrancor.

It's also important for reducing traffic and adding vibrancy. Dentist office, cafe, small grocer, doctor, optometrist etc. Can locate in these buildings making it reasonable for people to walk instead of drive to these things. Retail on ground floor is key to making these not suburban condos where the residents have to drive everywhere. It also provides an additional amenity to existing residents as they can now have additional shops closer.

Sure they'll be vacant temporarily, but as Hamilton grows they'll fill up. As demand grows, and supply doesn't, commercial rent prices will explode like Toronto where the only stores that can afford rents are Shoppers Drug Mart which sucks. I'd prefer to see at least one commercial unit at a minimum in ever new build, especially downtown.
 
I see why you would doubt the necessity to include retail but there is a great way to eventually have it and not punish developers through lost income until it fills up. Build the ground floor to eventually have retail but allow it to be residential for a year or two until the demand is there. Voila!
 
Chris R. said:
I've said it before, but vacant commercial for a few years is fine. The issue is that this building will be around when I die, despite Hamilton's population likely being double and demand for retail being much higher. It will fill up eventually, but now there will never be retail here.

Additionally it's not even that far off that Main St will likely be a far more welcoming street.

Vrancor is just shitty and doesn't want to really rent out the retail, this isn't Vrancor.

It's also important for reducing traffic and adding vibrancy. Dentist office, cafe, small grocer, doctor, optometrist etc. Can locate in these buildings making it reasonable for people to walk instead of drive to these things. Retail on ground floor is key to making these not suburban condos where the residents have to drive everywhere. It also provides an additional amenity to existing residents as they can now have additional shops closer.

Sure they'll be vacant temporarily, but as Hamilton grows they'll fill up. As demand grows, and supply doesn't, commercial rent prices will explode like Toronto where the only stores that can afford rents are Shoppers Drug Mart which sucks. I'd prefer to see at least one commercial unit at a minimum in ever new build, especially downtown.
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I completely agree with all your points here. Would be nice. But you'll never see a developer doing it until it's financially viable. A developer doesn't want an entire floor sitting empty for years on end.
 
TheHonestMaple said:
I don't really understand the constant calls for ground floor retail on these condo buildings in Hamilton. Frankly, there just isn't demand for it. If there was retail at the ground level here, it would remain empty for years and years. 101 Locke is a prime example of this. Look at all the Vranich buildings with ground floor retail, empty.
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I would have to agree with this - I think vranich's is still empty on his last build.
 
TheHonestMaple said:
I don't really understand the constant calls for ground floor retail on these condo buildings in Hamilton. Frankly, there just isn't demand for it. If there was retail at the ground level here, it would remain empty for years and years. 101 Locke is a prime example of this. Look at all the Vranich buildings with ground floor retail, empty.
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Isn't 101 Locke doing pretty well with their retail? I've gone to 2 places there pretty regularly (physio and optical). But you're right about Vrancor. I don't even think they even try to lease 220 Cannon Street East:.
 
Looking closer to completion. Might not be able to see from the photos, but interiors on the first floor look complete or near complete:
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TheHonestMaple said:
They finally found a tenant for the southwest corner like 6 months ago. It sat empty the entire time.
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Is this guy serious?!

101 Locke wasn’t complete until late-2019…
Do you need a reminder of what happened after that?

Its retail units are now like 90% occupied (albeit by some nonsense like a ‘cryo spa’), so I would argue the demand is in fact there.

Ground Floor Commercial doesn’t have to be just coffee shops and tapas joints, and isn’t just about filling a space that will attract wealthy patrons to extract as much of their disposable income as possible to maximize profits lol 🙄

The biggest benefit of Ground Floor Commercial spaces is the creation of the Third Place that’s even more important to society today than ever.

Laundromats are a perfect example of a third place amenity Hamilton is lacking. Especially downtown. They’re also natural spaces for members of society to mingle, share complaints and ideas.

Maybe if we had more third places for Hamiltonians to complain together at, our politicians would feel pressured to fix those roads you want repaired so badly.

But seriously, drop the ‘poor developers not making as much profit as they want’ whine already.
 
DC83 said:
Is this guy serious?!

101 Locke wasn’t complete until late-2019…
Do you need a reminder of what happened after that?

Its retail units are now like 90% occupied (albeit by some nonsense like a ‘cryo spa’), so I would argue the demand is in fact there.

Ground Floor Commercial doesn’t have to be just coffee shops and tapas joints, and isn’t just about filling a space that will attract wealthy patrons to extract as much of their disposable income as possible to maximize profits lol 🙄

The biggest benefit of Ground Floor Commercial spaces is the creation of the Third Place that’s even more important to society today than ever.

Laundromats are a perfect example of a third place amenity Hamilton is lacking. Especially downtown. They’re also natural spaces for members of society to mingle, share complaints and ideas.

Maybe if we had more third places for Hamiltonians to complain together at, our politicians would feel pressured to fix those roads you want repaired so badly.

But seriously, drop the ‘poor developers not making as much profit as they want’ whine already.
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It sat empty for like 3 years dude. Not great.
 
I'd love to see more grade level retail in these developments. I just personally don't think the market demand is quite there yet... for what Ristman is calling for. If every new condo had retail in the ground floor, 75% of them would sit empty. Developers will only build it if there is a market desire for it. Any municipal government interference and planners trying to force their will, will only result in empty storefronts. market going to do what the market is going to do.
 
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