Toronto Waterworks Building Redevelopment | 47.55m | 13s | MOD Developments | Diamond Schmitt

TheKingEast said:
That picture highlights what a failure the "new" entertainment district condos are. They're all the same bloody height. It looks silly y and contrived. Just terrible.
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Well it's what this city wanted; drive out all the entertainment and nightlife out of the downtown core at any costs. Unfortunately the results are a 90% sea of dull, uninspiring and generically bland condos which bring no useful neighborhood/retail amenities to the area.

Luckily, this development it outside of that area and has been executed very well and will bring tons of positives to the area.
 
Amare said:
Well it's what this city wanted; drive out all the entertainment and nightlife out of the downtown core at any costs. Unfortunately the results are a 90% sea of dull, uninspiring and generically bland condos which bring no useful neighborhood/retail amenities to the area.

Luckily, this development it outside of that area and has been executed very well and will bring tons of positives to the area.
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My issue are the height restrictions. Every builder is going to build to the max alllowable height so what we have are a bunch of buildings at the same height. Looks awful.
 
Amare said:
Well it's what this city wanted; drive out all the entertainment and nightlife out of the downtown core at any costs. Unfortunately the results are a 90% sea of dull, uninspiring and generically bland condos which bring no useful neighborhood/retail amenities to the area.

Luckily, this development it outside of that area and has been executed very well and will bring tons of positives to the area.
Click to expand...
The City did not want this. Those still remaining in positions of power from when the ED first blew up are working overtime to not 'repeat' it. I'm curious what you think they should have done instead?
TheKingEast said:
My issue are the height restrictions. Every builder is going to build to the max alllowable height so what we have are a bunch of buildings at the same height. Looks awful.
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So how would you solve that issue?
 
Some shots from the penthouse:
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LINK
 
ProjectEnd said:
The City did not want this. Those still remaining in positions of power from when the ED first blew up are working overtime to not 'repeat' it. I'm curious what you think they should have done instead?
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For starters they should have actually followed their own definitions of what they were trying to accomplish with the Entertainment District plan:

  • The plan set out to protect a diversity of entertainment, living, working, and shopping choices.
--->They failed to diversity any form of entertainment and the reverse has happened with restaurants and entertainment options being driven out. ---> The current living options fail to address the diverse range of occupancy needs (ie: oversupply of studio and 1-bedrooms, lack of 2 and 3 bedrooms)

  • The plan set out to protect designated and listed heritage buildings
--->Asides from a literal handful of buildings we've seen how "well" that's gone.

  • The plan set out to promote Area Businesses, Attractions & Tourism, Heritage Arts & Culture
--->Arts & Culture, and Attractions & Tourism has been retained so i'll give them credit there. However asides from Queen Street West, businesses have struggled horrendously and new developments only exasperated (not helped) the issue. Retail has also been wiped out clean on certain corridors, while smaller intimate entertainment venues (ie: not clubs) are virtually all gone.

  • The plan set out to enhance streetscapes/open spaces, livable & pedestrian environments, connections & wayfinding, ensure a high quality and livable built environment
--->Connections & Wayfinding have just finally been enhanced and improved after nearly a decade of messiness. Streetscapes are decent, but make no mistake there is virtually no open spaces anywhere in the district asides from the area around Rogers Centre. The ED also certainly does not ensure a "vibrant, inviting, and appealing environment for walking and commercial viability" asides from on Queen West.


Just going through the entire plan, it's comical to see what we have now vs. what was actually planned for the entire area. Some of it was followed through with, a vast majority has not been. For the sake of this thread I wont delve in to the whole plan in too much more detail, but what I will say is that this development is by far the most complete development the area has seen and it's not even in the Entertainment District. In short, this development is exactly what we needed more of, not the micro condo/ studio/1-bedroom with severely limited and ill-suited retail arrangements.
 
ProjectEnd said:
That's all cute verbiage, but let's say I, as a developer, don't want to do that. How do you stop me, or, more importantly, how do you balance my needs with your own (assuming you're taking the position of the City here)?
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Different ways to go about it, but one example is that for increased density the city could have required there be the various aspects of the Entertainment District plan implemented which actually fit their vision for the area. Instead of you know, just saying we want more Section 37 funds to top up the coffers. I'll admit however, the OMB really screwed with Toronto and didnt help matters at all.

The more I look and go through and the Entertainment District plan, the more I laugh at it for the short-comings of what we have today and a lot of the visions for it have been developed outside of the district (ie: the development of a major shopping anchor-The Well, Restaurant Row- King West of Spadina, etc..).
 
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