Toronto Wallace Emerson Community Centre & Park | ?m | 3s | Almadev | Perkins&Will

This is supposed to finish around the same time as Galleria 01 and 02. Lets see if Elad can hold their promise, my guess is they will have to finish this before they can demo the existing community center?
 
I hate to link BlogTO, but they posted about this:

www.blogto.com

Popular Toronto ice rink that is jam-packed nearly every night will soon be closed

A popular Toronto ice rink is expected to shut down after this season. Plans to redevelop the Wallace Emerson Park and Community Centre, at Dupont an…
www.blogto.com www.blogto.com
"The hockey rink is jam-packed every single night (typically around 30 players) and almost nobody is aware of the plan to remove it," says Westreich. "This will be a huge loss for the shinny hockey community."

I love the idea of a skating trail, but the rink/leisure pad design that is all over the city is such a tried and true design. There probably wasn't a need to completely reinvent the wheel here. I think it's a fair complaint on this guy's part.
 
Ward8 said:
I hate to link BlogTO, but they posted about this:

www.blogto.com

Popular Toronto ice rink that is jam-packed nearly every night will soon be closed

A popular Toronto ice rink is expected to shut down after this season. Plans to redevelop the Wallace Emerson Park and Community Centre, at Dupont an…
www.blogto.com www.blogto.com
"The hockey rink is jam-packed every single night (typically around 30 players) and almost nobody is aware of the plan to remove it," says Westreich. "This will be a huge loss for the shinny hockey community."

I love the idea of a skating trail, but the rink/leisure pad design that is all over the city is such a tried and true design. There probably wasn't a need to completely reinvent the wheel here. I think it's a fair complaint on this guy's part.
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Public shinny was how I learned to play hockey. Wasn't able to make the time commitment for organized hockey, so it's sad to see the community losing a shinny sheet.

It's a compounding effect too, as those who aren't as good/less confident won't feel as comfortable in an overcrowded setting. It's already a prevalent problem for most ODRs here in the City (look at Christie Pits), so there's a big risk that fewer people will be taking up shinny.
 
We are actually in need of more, not less, NHL-regulation sized ice surfaces in the downtown/inner suburbs area.
1. We are pretty short of surfaces for organised hockey anyway, and opportunities for adult hockey (particularly for women) are being pushed out.
2, There is insufficient regulation-sized ice to get a synchro team of any description up and running. There is no opportunity to introduce ringette.
3. A multi-surface facility is needed so we can run club-level competitions to support non-elite figure skating in the city. The closest facilities are in Mississauga and York region.
2. In the Etobicoke area, the city is looking to repurpose a regulation-sized arena for curling. This is precipitated by the closure of several private curling clubs in Etobicoke, but would leave the community figure skating club there, along with the CanSkate Learn to Skate programs, without a(n accessible) home.

As the population increases, we need more, year-round, publicly owned ice and these part-time, leisurely skate round-and-round ice strips don't support any ice-based sports.
 
AnnetteMeetsJane said:
We are actually in need of more, not less, NHL-regulation sized ice surfaces in the downtown/inner suburbs area.
1. We are pretty short of surfaces for organised hockey anyway, and opportunities for adult hockey (particularly for women) are being pushed out.
2, There is insufficient regulation-sized ice to get a synchro team of any description up and running. There is no opportunity to introduce ringette.
3. A multi-surface facility is needed so we can run club-level competitions to support non-elite figure skating in the city. The closest facilities are in Mississauga and York region.
2. In the Etobicoke area, the city is looking to repurpose a regulation-sized arena for curling. This is precipitated by the closure of several private curling clubs in Etobicoke, but would leave the community figure skating club there, along with the CanSkate Learn to Skate programs, without a(n accessible) home.

As the population increases, we need more, year-round, publicly owned ice and these part-time, leisurely skate round-and-round ice strips don't support any ice-based sports.
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There is a petition here to get a rink added to the park plans, for anyone who'd like to add their name.

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I'm torn on this because I like the idea of a skating trail/outdoor skating area that you can just walk up to and start skating in a casual fashion, vs. going into a rink proper which feels like more of a Thing to me as someone who doesn't routinely go to rinks, and might be booked/in use for a hockey game, etc. which would preclude walking over and having a casual skate or make it weird social dynamic balancing what I'd want to do (just skate around) with the people who want to play hockey on the rink. Vs. a skating trail kinda thing I figure I could just head on over to anytime and have a skate either alone or as a fun casual thing to do with friends or potential romantic date. There's a rink close to me at Campbell Park that I never feel like is something I would just go over to skate on even though it's very close (maybe I should though!), but I could definitely see myself walking further to go to this skating trail.

But of course these rinks also serve a valuable use for a different group of people who want to skate on a rink, play hockey, etc. and it's really unfortunate to lose one of the few we have and this park currently has both a rink and a free-form skating area (though I prefer this proposed trail, to the current free-form area) and now is losing one. We need both in the city!
 
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concrete_and_light said:
I'm torn on this because I like the idea of a skating trail/outdoor skating area that you can just walk up to and start skating in a casual fashion, vs. going into a rink proper which feels like more of a Thing to me as someone who doesn't routinely go to rinks, and might be booked/in use for a hockey game, etc. which would preclude walking over and having a casual skate or make it weird social dynamic balancing what I'd want to do (just skate around) with the people who want to play hockey on the rink. Vs. a skating trail kinda thing I figure I could just head on over to anytime and have a skate either alone or as a fun casual thing to do with friends or potential romantic date. There's a rink close to me at Campbell Park that I never feel like is something I would just go over to skate on even though it's very close (maybe I should though!), but I could definitely see myself walking further to go to this skating trail.

But of course these rinks also serve a valuable use for a different group of people who want to skate on a rink, play hockey, etc. and it's really unfortunate to lose one of the few we have and this park currently has both a rink and a free-form skating area (though I prefer this proposed trail, to the current free-form area) and now is losing one. We need both in the city!
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absolutely need both! would hate to lose one at the expense of the other. The current free-form area there is tiny too which is unfortunate.

I'm still torn on skating trails. They're cool, but makes it harder practice/learn and be creative, to me the current skating trails have felt very cramped on either side of oneself; also notable less kid friendly as a result.
 
Community opposition to outdoor hockey rink closure picks up steam

Jan 20, 2022
Jared Westreich, an engineer who works for a medical technology start-up, moved to the west-end neighbourhood in October and hits the ice several times every week to play shinny hockey with anywhere from 30 to 50 other people. When he saw signs that the park was going to be redeveloped he contacted the office of local city councillor Ana Bailão and was surprised to learn that the hockey rink was going to be shut down and replaced with a skating path and a small skating pad that can be closed down for shinny hockey.

“It’s about a third of the size of the current hockey rink, which is already packed with people,” Westreich says. “You could maybe play two on two hockey on the pad, three on three if you’re really pushing it.”

When asking around Westreich learned that not a single person at the rink knew of the plan to not replace the hockey rink.

“I tried to set up a meeting to speak with the city councillor,” Westreich says. “But the message I got was that nothing could be done, the plans were already made up and maybe I could put up a petition.”

Westreich, along with Joe Sismondo and Patrick Meredith-Karam decided to advocate to keep the hockey rink and started a petition on Change.org five days ago, and it has 1,500 signees and counting.

“I’ve been overwhelmed by how many people have signed it,” he says. “And it’s been shared hundreds of times, which means people think it’s important enough to share with their own friends.”

The petition has been posted on Facebook community sites, including one for the Dufferin Grove area, to which Coun. Bailão responded that the rink closure is part of a massive expansion of Wallace Emerson Park. and in place of the hockey rink there will be a skating path as well as a skating path that can be blocked off to be used for shinny hockey.

“Overall, the total skating area is similar in size to the existing skate area at the park today. However, the layout of the skate trail should provide more usable area for more leisure skaters and accommodate more people, as it provides a larger perimeter circuit/loop,” she wrote. “The shinny rink will be smaller than the existing shinny area, and while it won’t have boards, it will be enclosed by concrete seat walls (around 2′ high) and puck backstops.”

Westreich described the councillor’s comments as the same generic response he received when asked about the park.

“It’s really disappointing that’s the response when so many people clearly care,” he says.

Westreich is hoping that the overwhelming response to the petition will lead to a community meeting with the councillor where people can express their views directly.

In the response, Coun. Bailão made it clear that change was not something that she would entertain.

“I can appreciate that you may like the city to reopen and restart the design process for this project, but we cannot accommodate this request. Detailed design and construction documents have been completed for the facility, and the project has been tendered,” she wrote.

Westreich, however, isn’t giving up.

“Although they say it can’t be changed, we’ve learned a lot over the past two years about what our values are and free and accessible recreation is one of those things,” Westreich says. “And the original process didn’t have community engagement as there were only 50 people who filled out the questionnaire. I think a meeting is a reasonable ask.”

Westreich adds that he’s never been involved in local politics, but he sees how much people care about the rink, and the community it fosters. It’s the same for more than 50 neighbourhood outdoor rinks across the city where people gather to play shinny hockey and skate.
Hockey is an expensive sport at an organized level, and these rinks provide access to the sport for those who otherwise might not be able to play at all.

“It’s just awesome,” Westreich says of the city’s outdoor rinks. “I can’t think of too many other cities that have such a great outdoor hockey scene. We need to add to it, not take away.”

To continue on his push to save the Wallace-Emerson hockey rink, Westreich and two friends who have worked on this project together will be at the rink on Saturday, Jan. 22 passing out hot chocolate, and flyers, making people aware of what is happening.
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streetsoftoronto.com

Community opposition to outdoor hockey rink closure picks up steam

One of the unique aspects of Toronto is the number of free and accessible outdoor hockey rinks that open up across the city every winter
streetsoftoronto.com streetsoftoronto.com
 
“And the original process didn’t have community engagement as there were only 50 people who filled out the questionnaire. I think a meeting is a reasonable ask.”

This is emblematic of a larger problem when it comes to the city and community engagement. Every meeting I've been to is full of retirees. The city doesn't do a good job of reaching out to working people or those that do shift work. A lot of demographics don't have the privilege of being involved in the consultation process. Limiting consultation to a narrow slice of the population is often worse than doing no consultation at all. A skating trail isn't the end of the world here, but it perfectly illustrates the battle that people face on broader city issues. It reminds me of other situations I have been in with the city. I have no stake in this particular rink, IT's not a place I go to for recreation, but I can't help but be irked by the councillors statement.

“I can appreciate that you may like the city to reopen and restart the design process for this project, but we cannot accommodate this request. Detailed design and construction documents have been completed for the facility, and the project has been tendered,” she wrote.

I understand how complicated these things can be, but offer a solution of some kind. Upgrades at a nearby park? I'll look into it? (even if you don't intend to.) We should be encouraging civic engagement rather than dampening it. “I can appreciate that you may like the city to reopen and restart the design process" The start of that sentence is such a pat on the head of someone who has a legitimate grievance and who has shown that the consultation process was probably inadequate.
 
Ward8 said:
“And the original process didn’t have community engagement as there were only 50 people who filled out the questionnaire. I think a meeting is a reasonable ask.”

This is emblematic of a larger problem when it comes to the city and community engagement. Every meeting I've been to is full of retirees. The city doesn't do a good job of reaching out to working people or those that do shift work. A lot of demographics don't have the privilege of being involved in the consultation process. Limiting consultation to a narrow slice of the population is often worse than doing no consultation at all. A skating trail isn't the end of the world here, but it perfectly illustrates the battle that people face on broader city issues. It reminds me of other situations I have been in with the city. I have no stake in this particular rink, IT's not a place I go to for recreation, but I can't help but be irked by the councillors statement.

“I can appreciate that you may like the city to reopen and restart the design process for this project, but we cannot accommodate this request. Detailed design and construction documents have been completed for the facility, and the project has been tendered,” she wrote.

I understand how complicated these things can be, but offer a solution of some kind. Upgrades at a nearby park? I'll look into it? (even if you don't intend to.) We should be encouraging civic engagement rather than dampening it. “I can appreciate that you may like the city to reopen and restart the design process" The start of that sentence is such a pat on the head of someone who has a legitimate grievance and who has shown that the consultation process was probably inadequate.
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Also, while there is a cost inevitably involved, it is not impossible to redesign an aspect of something that's been tendered and then issue a change order, especially early on in a project.
 
Ward8 said:
This is emblematic of a larger problem when it comes to the city and community engagement. Every meeting I've been to is full of retirees. The city doesn't do a good job of reaching out to working people or those that do shift work. A lot of demographics don't have the privilege of being involved in the consultation process. Limiting consultation to a narrow slice of the population is often worse than doing no consultation at all. A skating trail isn't the end of the world here, but it perfectly illustrates the battle that people face on broader city issues. It reminds me of other situations I have been in with the city. I have no stake in this particular rink, IT's not a place I go to for recreation, but I can't help but be irked by the councillors statement.
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This is exactly it, and I can't help but think that the first people they should have brought in for consultations are users of the existing park. I don't use the skating rink, but I do walk through the park at least once or twice a week, and I never saw any signage indicating that changes were coming. (I did know because I keep up with these things, but most don't have the time or the interest.)

Whoever they consulted with, they clearly missed a major constituency, and the councillor's office should be taking notes here so that doesn't happen again for future projects.
 

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"We will be at the Wallace Emerson rink today starting at 2pm giving out hot chocolate and chatting with people about the new park's rink design. Feel free to stop by and say hi! Also, if you want to get involved or stay up to date on our efforts, please join our facebook group. Thanks!"

And the Save Wallace Emerson Hockey Rink facebook group is here:

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There was tons of community consultation on this one. It would have been difficult not to know about this, unless of course you didn't live in the neighbourhood. Where were all the hockey players during the 2 years of consultation?
Answer, probably playing in leagues at indoor arenas that have now been shut down due ongoing covid restrictions. I know it's busy at the rink these days, but I wonder how busy it was in 2018 and 2019, during the consultation. The last 2 years have been unusually busy at outdoor rinks, especially now as it is one of the last remaining permitted rec facilities. Will the crowds still arrive once movies, restaurants, indoor pools and indoor recreation reopen next winter?
 
Jacob Lisgar said:
It would have been difficult not to know about this, unless of course you didn't live in the neighbourhood.
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The fact that none of the skaters know about it is a red flag though. There is a long history of an exclusive group getting to be involved in consultation meetings. It extends far beyond this rink and is a huge problem when it comes to zoning reform and adding density to neighbourhoods. I can't say for sure that this is the case here, but there is a pattern. I've been to many consultations and I'm almost always the youngest one in the room by 15-30 years.

Rinks have been a bit busier, but indoor facilities haven't been closed all that much. I've mostly noticed a bump in off peak play at my local rink. I would assume that's due to people working from home, and kids not being at school. Peak hour has always been slammed where I play.. can't speak for here though.
 
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