Toronto Urban Sprawl Compared to Other Cities

[narduch]

Personally think they developers are simply holding back so that they can help keep demand high.

Right wingers are trying to claim there is too much red tape. But that sounds like bs.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

The last remaining gas station in downtown Vancouver has been put up for sale. If it sells, this would make Vancouver the first big city in Canada to lack gas pumps in its downtown core.

Meanwhile here's a quick google search of Toronto's downtown gas stations, which may not be entirely accurate but it gives you an idea. Do you think one day they will all be redeveloped?

Of course, one day no one will be burning gasoline to run internal combustion engines.

Personally think they developers are simply holding back so that they can help keep demand high.

Right wingers are trying to claim there is too much red tape. But that sounds like bs.

The question is - just how much would releasing even parts of the greenbelt to development achieve in the long run? You'd still end up hitting a wall somewhere down the road unless you want to scrap it altogether, which is of course not the goal, right? Right? Unless you want to sprawl infinitely outward, at some point you will hit an issue with soaring prices.

AoD

 

[narduch]

Of course, one day no one will be burning gasoline to run internal combustion engines.



The question is - just how much would releasing even parts of the greenbelt to development achieve in the long run? You'd still end up hitting a wall somewhere down the road unless you want to scrap it altogether, which is of course not the goal, right? Right? Unless you want to sprawl infinitely outward, at some point you will hit an issue with soaring prices.

AoD

I don't think opening the greenbelt will make much of a difference at this point.

What we really need to do is convince people that a single family home isn't the be-all and end-all. But at the same time we need to provide affordable options for young families with 2 or 3 kids.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I don't think opening the greenbelt will make much of a difference at this point.

What we really need to do is convince people that a single family home isn't the be-all and end-all. But at the same time we need to provide affordable options for young families with 2 or 3 kids.

I don't think it would make a meaningful difference at the end - everyone seem to point to the existing problem of land availability, but no one seem to talk about how much impact opening up the greenbelt in various scenarios will achieve. That is a little fishy.

AoD

 

[narduch]

I don't think it would make a meaningful difference at the end - everyone seem to point to the existing problem of land availability, but no one seem to talk about how much impact opening up the greenbelt in various scenarios will achieve. That is a little fishy.

AoD

I'm sure this is being pushed by land owners or developers in these areas looking to make a fortune.

 

[Avenue]

I agree the fixation with single family housing as a place to live for families is a cultural one and it's changing too slowly. That said, the fact that so few 3 or 4 bedroom condos are getting built is making this transition ever more unlikely. The policy and planning should somehow enforce/incentive this.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I agree the fixation with single family housing as a place to live for families is a cultural one and it's changing too slowly. That said, the fact that so few 3 or 4 bedroom condos are getting built is making this transition ever more unlikely. The policy and planning should somehow enforce/incentive this.

The fixation of needing a 3/4 bedroom condo for families is also a cultural one.

AoD

 

[Avenue]

The fixation of needing a 3/4 bedroom condo for families is also a cultural one.

AoD

Then you could say the fixation to have more than one child is also likely cultural. As is the fixation that parents and children should sleep in separate rooms... but that's going to get anywhere. Condo sizes need to get better if we want them to be an affordable and viable alternative to single family housing. I'm sure in places like some countries in Asia people raise more than families of 4 or 5 in dwellings the size of a 1-bedroom Toronto condo, but that's just not going to happen here.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Then you could say the fixation to have more than one child is also likely cultural. As is the fixation that parents and children should sleep in separate rooms... but that's going to get anywhere. Condo sizes need to get better if we want them to be an affordable and viable alternative to single family housing. I'm sure in places like some countries in Asia people raise more than families of 4 or 5 in dwellings the size of a 1-bedroom Toronto condo, but that's just not going to happen here.

Condos with 3 or 4 rooms are going to be fundamentally less affordable given construction cost plus land (unless you can lower both). I am not sure how you propose to do that however - and I would hate to see a situation where someone has to subsidize it for it to happen.

AoD

 

[Avenue]

Condos with 3 or 4 rooms are going to be fundamentally less affordable given construction cost plus land (unless you can lower both).
AoD

They'll still be a lot more affordable than single family housing. That's my point.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

They'll still be a lot more affordable than single family housing. That's my point.

That trade space probably doesn't work very well - by all means provide the mechanism for larger units (be it off the bat or ability to merge units); but I suspect people who insist on that kind of lifestyle are probably more willing to move further away from the city than settle for condos.

AoD

 

[lead82]

I don't get the argument of why 3/4 bedroom apartments are so costly. They were built regularly in the 50-70s. Bigger units don't need more than 2 bathrooms or multiple kitchens. Build units in the 1000 - 1500 sq ft size and that would be perfect for families. Also, what makes condos expensive are the high rise costs and amenities. Build more walk up apartments that don't require elevators or underground parking or amenities. They are basically large houses split into multiple units - duplexes and triplexes. The old parts of the city has lots of them and we need more built all around. This is what's missing.

If you build more low rise but dense housing people will buy in. A choice between a semi/town in suburbia or a duplex in the city where it's walkable and you don't need 2+ cars per family.

 

[Memph]

Yeah building 3-4 bedroom units at prices affordable to middle class families in downtown might not be that feasible but in areas like East York, Birch Cliff, Etobicoke, Willowdale, it should be feasible especially if you can have lowrises. IMO the main reason we don't see more lowrises being built in these inner suburban areas is that the amount of land zoned for apartments is still quite limited so supply and demand means land is still expensive and development winds up being highrises. Also not sure how many families want to live in a 3rd floor apartment on a busy arterial like Sheppard...

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

From CBC News:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...not-matched-by-supply-report/article34801918/

AoD

 

[Avenue]

From CBC News:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...not-matched-by-supply-report/article34801918/

AoD

Demand for low-rise homes – especially detached homes – has not been matched by new supply, while the supply of condominium units has soared, the report says. The result has been major price inflation in all types of “ground-level” homes, including townhouses, semi-detached and detached homes.

I can't believe they keep publishing this stuff. Demand for Ferraris aren't matched by supply either, so what? Even a 9 year old can comprehend there isn't enough space in the GTA for everyone to live in a detached home. Why does BILD even keep getting a platform? They have had nothing smart to say, other than pushing a shallow agenda.