Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

[LNahid2000]

"Integrated" is such a flimsy and stupid term.

If you want it reduced, then say that. That is explicitly and solely what you want, right? You don't want one fare that is identical in sum to the current fares, right?

Say you want it reduced, or lower, or cheaper, or whatever. Don't couch it in the sad bafflegab of backroom Metrolinx boffins and politicos.

A combined or integrated fare is of zero relevance or meaning to anyone. It's a farcical, pointless word.

I said integrated because that's what I meant. In other cities your fare is the same regardless of the mode of transportation you choose (commuter rail, subway, lrt, etc.) as long as you stay in your zone. Anyone who lives more than a 10 minute walk from Bloor or Weston still isn't going to use the UP Express to commute with the new reduced fares because they'd have to pay a second fare for the TTC. What I want is to not have to base my transportation decisions on who operates a certain transit line.

 

[Grimace]

"Integrated" is such a flimsy and stupid term.

If you want it reduced, then say that. That is explicitly and solely what you want, right? You don't want one fare that is identical in sum to the current fares, right?

Say you want it reduced, or lower, or cheaper, or whatever. Don't couch it in the sad bafflegab of backroom Metrolinx boffins and politicos.

A combined or integrated fare is of zero relevance or meaning to anyone. It's a farcical, pointless word proffered for argument over to distract from the reality it can ultimately serve to increase fares for everyone, everywhere.

Suggesting the integration of TTC/GO fares is not simply a question of whether the fare is reduced, or lower, or cheaper. It is about whether GO fares should be reduced IF you have already taken the TTC. Let's say that in 5 years they have actually put in the tunnel from the Dundas West platform to the GO/UPX station. I live at Dundas West and can now get to Union for $4.71. Someone living at High Park would need to take TTC and then UPX at a combined cost of $7.61. Is the difference justifiable? If you consider the UPX a premium service perhaps. But if you have an empty UPX and actually want to attract riders to UPX as a means of alleviating the subway congestion at St. George/Yonge, then integrating the fares makes sense.

Certainly this could be viewed as a slippery slope towards zones, and zones for TTC fares would likely result in increased fares for people with longer travel times. But that hardly seems a good reason to seek to prohibit the word "integrated".

 

[ottbike]

VIA sneaking by the UPX platform

 

[SFO-YYZ]

Suggesting the integration of TTC/GO fares is not simply a question of whether the fare is reduced, or lower, or cheaper. It is about whether GO fares should be reduced IF you have already taken the TTC. Let's say that in 5 years they have actually put in the tunnel from the Dundas West platform to the GO/UPX station. I live at Dundas West and can now get to Union for $4.71. Someone living at High Park would need to take TTC and then UPX at a combined cost of $7.61. Is the difference justifiable? If you consider the UPX a premium service perhaps. But if you have an empty UPX and actually want to attract riders to UPX as a means of alleviating the subway congestion at St. George/Yonge, then integrating the fares makes sense.

Certainly this could be viewed as a slippery slope towards zones, and zones for TTC fares would likely result in increased fares for people with longer travel times. But that hardly seems a good reason to seek to prohibit the word "integrated".

Currently, a trip fro Union to other GTA stations like Burlington costs roughly $10 with Presto - do you think it is fair to other GO riders traveling the same route if only I get to benefit from reduced GO fares just because I rode the TTC earlier?

A further point to consider - the vast majority of TTC riders hardly ever touch the GO system as demonstrated by lack of familiarity bordering hostility towards Presto. Why should GO transit make extra fare concessions to a group that doesn't even use Presto and has vastly different travel patterns as its core customer base? If anything, Metrolinx should strive to include a reduced TTC transfer fare into the already high GO fares, not the other way round, which will be an immediate value add to the vast majority of current GO passengers.

You cite the combined cost of TTC+UPX from High Park to Union as $7.61. The question is, do you think it is worth to pay the extra $4 to get downtown in 15~20 minutes - 3 min to reach Dundas West, 5 min to walk to UPX platform, and 7 min to arrive at Union vs. the 30+ min on a subway? For you that may be a deal breaker, but for others $7.61 may well worth the money.

 

[georgevicbell]

its likely that upx will still have low ridership at bloor Dundas until the tunnel is built. In the meantime they need to be competitive with the airport rocket from Kipling. The only way I see that happening is if there is essentially a very low transfer at bloor/Dundas until the tunnel is built. Likely even 1 or 2 dollars would be too much as there is little benefit once you factor in the walking and transfer times. I would guess even a free transfer at this station wouldn't attract much ridership except during rush-hour where there is some risk the bus gets delayed.

 

[Palma]

If you've been following this thread, you should know Palma has been advocating for a lower fare consistently. It is obvious (to me at least) that Palma would like a free ride to the airport if and when he/she should ever deign to go, and therefore his/her opinion on the matter of pricing is irrelevant.

Where in the US can you get to an airport on an express train for $1.90? Genuine question.

You are so wrong. I feel it should be TTC like fare $3.00 or $4.00 but only for the Weston to Union route. Maybe I did not make myself clear but to go to Pearson it should be more and what metrolinx has proposed is more than fair. Only Weston to union should be I repeat $3.00-$4.00 but walk in and if arriving from a TTC accept the transfer.

 

[junctionist]

Weston will be a more attractive place to live for downtown workers and professionals with 15 minute UP Express service and commuter fares.

 

[APTA-2048]

You are so wrong. I feel it should be TTC like fare $3.00 or $4.00 but only for the Weston to Union route. Maybe I did not make myself clear but to go to Pearson it should be more and what metrolinx has proposed is more than fair. Only Weston to union should be I repeat $3.00-$4.00 but walk in and if arriving from a TTC accept the transfer.

I'd like something similar to the rest of the GTA. GO fare, which is a bit more at $5, but your TTC fare is 50-75 cents.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

You are so wrong. I feel it should be TTC like fare $3.00 or $4.00 but only for the Weston to Union route. Maybe I did not make myself clear but to go to Pearson it should be more and what metrolinx has proposed is more than fair. Only Weston to union should be I repeat $3.00-$4.00 but walk in and if arriving from a TTC accept the transfer.

'So wrong?' Not just wrong? Why should Weston deserve a TTC fare to downtown, but equidistant GO fares be more?

Sorry -- let me answer for you: because you live walking distance to the Weston UPX station. Correct?

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Weston will be a more attractive place to live for downtown workers and professionals with 15 minute UP Express service and commuter fares.

And I should care about that -- as opposed to every other neighbourhood in the GTA -- why?

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

I'd like something similar to the rest of the GTA. GO fare, which is a bit more at $5, but your TTC fare is 50-75 cents.

???? Sorry -- the rest of the GTA pays $3.25 for TTC. Why should Weston pay 50-75 cents? 'Cause... y'know... Weston?

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

I have been following this thread and never got that impression. You're making assumptions here.

I never said you could get to an airport express train for $1.90.

Then... what are you saying, exactly? That you can travel on a bus in Milwaukee or Des Moines or wherever for $1.90, but not to any airport nearby those burgs, so that's somehow worth adding to the debate about an express train from Canada's busiest airport to Canada's most important transit hub and CBD?

 

[1overcosc]

???? Sorry -- the rest of the GTA pays $3.25 for TTC. Why should Weston pay 50-75 cents? 'Cause... y'know... Weston?

He means that the TTC co-fare should be 50-75 cents. As in, if you're buying a GO fare, your TTC fare on top of that should only be 50-75 cents.

 

[LNahid2000]

Then... what are you saying, exactly? That you can travel on a bus in Milwaukee or Des Moines or wherever for $1.90, but not to any airport nearby those burgs, so that's somehow worth adding to the debate about an express train from Canada's busiest airport to Canada's most important transit hub and CBD?

All I'm saying is that $1.90 is not the same thing as free (obviously). If the UP Express was $1.90 instead of free during Family Day weekend, those lineups would probably be nonexistent. Also, I did recently get from Atlanta airport to downtown in 18 minutes for $2.50. It wasn't branded as an express service, yet it had a faster average speed than the UP Express.

 

[Grimace]

Currently, a trip fro Union to other GTA stations like Burlington costs roughly $10 with Presto - do you think it is fair to other GO riders traveling the same route if only I get to benefit from reduced GO fares just because I rode the TTC earlier?

A further point to consider - the vast majority of TTC riders hardly ever touch the GO system as demonstrated by lack of familiarity bordering hostility towards Presto. Why should GO transit make extra fare concessions to a group that doesn't even use Presto and has vastly different travel patterns as its core customer base? If anything, Metrolinx should strive to include a reduced TTC transfer fare into the already high GO fares, not the other way round, which will be an immediate value add to the vast majority of current GO passengers.

You cite the combined cost of TTC+UPX from High Park to Union as $7.61. The question is, do you think it is worth to pay the extra $4 to get downtown in 15~20 minutes - 3 min to reach Dundas West, 5 min to walk to UPX platform, and 7 min to arrive at Union vs. the 30+ min on a subway? For you that may be a deal breaker, but for others $7.61 may well worth the money.

Yes, it is entirely fair to have a blended TTC/GO fare that is less than the total combined fare. The integration goes both ways. It doesn't just benefit those who start on TTC. That was the example used because the discussion was subway riders transferring to UPX, but it could also apply to Lakeshore riders who transfer to TTC to get to
Bloor, for example.

If you are already on a subway at Dundas West you have about 20 mins travel time to Union on the subway. Even with a tunnel, very few people will pay another $4.71 if they are already on the subway in order to save 5 minutes. Keep in mind that is basically an extra $2500 for an annual commute. The purpose of integrating fares would be to encourage usage of the service. The reason to encourage usage of the service is to reduce congestion on the subway.

I know that's not what the line was built for. Let's see what happens with the reduced fares but I expect the line will continue to have significant excess capacity and that can't be justified at the new rates.