Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

Actually Steve, I heard that the UPX DMU's are 100% mechanical gear box.
There used to be a lot on the web on this. I'll see what I can dig out later, but do know there's a different rated top speed, whether that's down to final gearing or a governor, I don't know, could never find out. I suspect a governor in SMARTs case.

How much "setting up shop" did VIA have to do to service these?
Do you mean ML? It's a good question. I do see their buses out to private garages for servicing. Who does the service on the Sharyos? I thought it was done at Mimico.
Actually Steve, I heard that the UPX DMU's are 100% mechanical gear box.
As to electrifying the vehicle, it could be derailleur system and still be as ridiculous to call it 'able to be changed to electric later'.

It could well have been me who posted the tech details on the ZF six speed box in this string prior.

upload_2018-10-9_17-57-7.png

https://urbantoronto.ca/xenforo_tes...m-s-metrolinx-mmm-group-limited.3188/page-555

Post Script: Accessing this string at the link above, almost all the reference links are now dead in that post and those following, however, I did quote sections from the now dead linked reports and manuals.

Just digging further, even some of the Wiki pages are dead, but Google cache fortunately saves the day:
The UP Express DMUs are based on the design created for the Sonoma–Marin Area Rail Transit system in California. Powered by a diesel hydraulic drive with a six-speed automatic transmission and regenerative braking, the DMUs are believed to be the first trains in the world that comply with the United States Environmental Protection Agency Tier 4 emission standards, which will reduce emissions up to 90%.[38] Braking energy is converted into electricity by the auxiliary power generator, and helps to provide onboard lighting and heating.[45] They also comply with FRA Tier 1 crash energy management features. Modifications for UP Express use include enclosed overhead luggage bins that comply with Transport Canada rules and an enhanced enclosed luggage tower.
https://webcache.googleusercontent....ue22+&cd=13&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca&client=ubuntu

Further digging confirms the obvious, that the ZF 6 spd, being automatic, has a fluid coupling (torque converter, albeit the term is a misnomer)
With its high level of efficiency and the efficient torque converter, the newly engineered 6-speed automatic transmission ZF-EcoLife Rail, which is designed for torques of up to 2500 newton meters, has better acceleration values, paired with a great level of comfort and lower engine speeds. Still working with the same installation space, a torsional damper has been integrated in the converter. It ensures smooth operation and savings during fuel-consuming starting processes. The integrated primary retarder that only requires a small installation space provides for strong braking power even at low speeds. In addition to the oil cooler which has been integrated into the transmission, a heat exchanger contributes to the high cooling performance of the ZF-EcoLife Rail. Thanks to optimized heat management, the oil change intervals and the service life are extended, the transmission is even more reliable, and easier to maintain and service. [...]
https://press.zf.com/site/press/en_de/microsites/press/list/release/release_25572.html

More of interest here:
http://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/Rail-Industry-Focus-/automatic-transmission
 

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@steveintoronto my understanding was VIA was handling Nippon maintenance at TMC (given their DMU and high floor experience). It may be that ML are now doing it at Willowbrook and that was only a temporary thing
 
@steveintoronto my understanding was VIA was handling Nippon maintenance at TMC (given their DMU and high floor experience). It may be that ML are now doing it at Willowbrook and that was only a temporary thing
Interesting. It could well be, I could see a lot of synergy for mechs and workshops, and VIA might even have bid on a contract to service them. I know the factory warranty expired, albeit whether Cummins and ZF are still warranty items would be another interesting question.

So to completely switch tracks again: What's the state and plans for the RDCs sitting idle at Mimico? I can't believe they're just forgotten after such steep refurbs.
 
Further digging confirms the obvious, that the ZF 6 spd, being automatic, has a fluid coupling (torque converter, albeit the term is a misnomer)

a fluid torque converter is par for the course on most automatic transmissions, including on cars. I dont really see this as being the same thing as a hydraulically powered DMU, thats a whole other beast in itself.
 
a fluid torque converter is par for the course on most automatic transmissions, including on cars. I dont really see this as being the same thing as a hydraulically powered DMU, thats a whole other beast in itself.
Of course it isn't, but it's still "fluid coupled". Otherwise it would be tantamount to 'power shifting' the gears.

Whatever, the point is that to 'electrify' the vehicle is not just an easy conversion, as Metrolinx, Nippon Sharyo and others had initially claimed. A DEMU would be, which is why some are dual powered so easily. The entire powertrain and more would have had to have been replaced. The claim was pure PR...if not propaganda. The same applies to whether a fully viscous xmssn or a 'mechanical' ZF is used. The bogies don't have motors.

On that point, btw you can hear and feel the Cardan Shaft and associated mounts and couplers creaking and groaning on the Nippons. It's a bit disconcerting by modern standards...A Class 158/9 rides like a Cadillac compared to the Nippons, and the 158s are growing long in the tooth themselves.
 
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Of course it isn't, but it's still "fluid coupled". Otherwise it would be tantamount to 'power shifting' the gears.

Whatever, the point is that to 'electrify' the vehicle is not just an easy conversion, as Metrolinx, Nippon Sharyo and others had initially claimed. A DEMU would be, which is why some are dual powered so easily. The entire powertrain and more would have had to have been replaced. The claim was pure PR...if not propaganda. The same applies to whether a fully viscous xmssn or a 'mechanical' ZF is used. The bogies don't have motors.

On that point, btw you can hear and feel the Cardan Shaft and associated mounts and couplers creaking and groaning on the Nippons. It's a bit disconcerting by modern standards...A Class 158/9 rides like a Cadillac compared to the Nippons, and the 158s are growing long in the tooth themselves.

I would think it would be easier, although redundant, to replace the diesel engines with electric motors and simply have them still operate through the transmission. Depending on torque you could lock the transmission in a fixed gear ratio if it was no longer needed.

A hack for sure, but probably the cheapest option.

Still, doesnt matter, Metrolinx said they want to replace the rolling stock for electrification.

You definitely get the sense that the Nippons were both rushed and really a somewhat modern looking shell and interior ontop of a very old type of design in terms of the drivetrain and mechanics. My friend calls it the big bus on rails.

Part of that is probably conforming to ridiculous mainline TC standards.
 
I thought all diesel trains were diesel electric. I thought electric traction motors are what drives the wheels with no physical connection to the diesel engine. The diesel engine is there to provide electricity to the traction motors.

Are these not that way?
 
I thought all diesel trains were diesel electric. I thought electric traction motors are what drives the wheels with no physical connection to the diesel engine. The diesel engine is there to provide electricity to the traction motors.

Are these not that way?

DMU's are commonly not diesel electric.

Due to their small size and weight its possible to make them mechanically or hydraulically connected, where a diesel motor drives the wheels through a mechanical gear box, or hydraulic fluid.

The weight of a freight train requires the diesel electric setup since you would need an insane amount of gear ratios to mechanically connect the diesel engine to the wheels and get enough torque to move the train.

A diesel electric system is more complex and thus more expensive, so its often not used on DMUs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_multiple_unit

Diesel-powered units may be further classified by their transmission type: diesel–electric (DEMU), diesel–mechanical (DMMU) or diesel–hydraulic (DHMU)

Diesel–mechanical [edit]
In a diesel–mechanical multiple unit (DMMU), the rotating energy of the engine is transmitted via a gearbox and driveshaft directly to the wheels of the train, like a car. The transmissions can be shifted manually by the driver, as in the great majority of first-generation British Rail DMUs, but in most applications gears are changed automatically.

Diesel–hydraulic[edit]
In a diesel–hydraulic multiple unit (DHMU), a hydraulic torque converter, a type of fluid coupling, acts as the transmission medium for the motive power of the diesel engine to turn the wheels. Some units feature a hybrid mix of hydraulic and mechanical transmissions, usually reverting to the latter at higher operating speeds as this decreases engine RPM and noise.

Diesel–electric [edit]
In a diesel–electric multiple unit (DEMU), a diesel engine drives an electrical generator or an alternator which produces electrical energy. The generated current is then fed to electric traction motors on the wheels or bogies in the same way as a conventional diesel–electric locomotive.[1]
 
I thought all diesel trains were diesel electric. I thought electric traction motors are what drives the wheels with no physical connection to the diesel engine. The diesel engine is there to provide electricity to the traction motors.

Are these not that way?
I wonder if DEMUs will get more common as dual power/hybrid/battery designs get more advanced.

Diesel only DEMUs are not unknown - see Northern Ireland’s former 70/80/450 classes and the current Bombardier Voyager classes in Britain for example.
 
... the current Bombardier Voyager classes in Britain for example.
The 220/1/2 DEMU use the same engine as the Nippon Sharyo UPX trains, and achieve much greater performance:
Technical details[edit]
All coaches are equipped with a Cummins QSK19 diesel engine of 750 hp (560 kW) at 1800rpm. These power a generator which supplies current to motors driving two axles per coach,[6] with one axle per bogie powered.[7][8]
[...]
Car body construction Steel
Car length 23.85 m (driving cars) or 22.82 m (intermediate cars)
Width 2.73 m (8 ft 11 in)
Articulated sections Flexible diaphragm (within unit only)
Maximum speed 125 mph (200 km/h)
Weight 185.6 t (182.7 long tons; 204.6 short tons) per trainset
Traction system DEMU
Prime mover(s) Cummins QSK19[1]
Power output Each engine: 560 kW (750 hp) at 1800 rpm
Total: 3,000 hp (2,240 kW)
Transmission Diesel-electric
UIC classification 1A'A1'+1A'A1'+1A'A1'+1A'A1'[2][3]
Braking system(s) Rheostatic
Safety system(s) AWS, TPWS
Coupling system Dellner[4]
Track gauge 1,435 mm (4 ft 81⁄2 in) standard gauge
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_220

The Class 221 is very similar, save for having a tilt mechanism. This model would suit the proposed HFR Peterborough route exquisitely: (These can be electrified, being termed EDMU when doing so)
The Class 221 are similar to the Class 220 Voyager units, but were built with a tilting mechanism enabling up to six degrees of tilt to allow higher speeds on curved tracks, most have five coaches, and they have a different bogie design. They have a maximum speed of 125 mph (200 km/h).
[...]
The Class 221s were produced as 5- or 4-coach sets. Each coach is equipped with a CumminsQSK19 diesel engine producing 560 kW (750 hp) at 1,800 rpm,[6] driving an electrical generator which powers two motors, each driving one (inner) axle per bogie via a cardan shaft and final drive.[3] 1,200 miles (1,900 km) can be travelled between refuellings. The coach bodies, the engines and most of the equipment of the Class 221s are the same as the Class 220s, but the bogies are very different: the Class 220 Voyager B5000 bogies have inside-frames which expose the whole of the wheel faces, while the Class 221 SuperVoyager Y36 bogies have a more traditional outside-framed bogie. Unlike the Class 220s, the Class 221s were built with a hydraulic-actuated tilting system to run at high speed around bends, though this has now been disabled from the 23 sets operated by CrossCountry.[5] [...]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_221

Class 222
[...]
All are equipped with a Cummins QSK19 diesel engine of 750 hp (560 kW) at 1800 rpm.[2] This powers a generator, which supplies current to motors driving two axles per coach. Approximately 1,350 miles (2,170 km) can be travelled between each refuelling.

Class 222 have rheostatic braking using the motors in reverse to generate electricity which is dissipated as heat through resistors situated on the roof of each coach; this saves on brake pad wear.

In common with the Class 220s, B5000 lightweight bogies are used - these are easily recognisable since the entire outer surface of the wheel is visible, with inboard axle bearings.

The Class 222 are fitted with Dellner couplers,[3] as on Class 220 Voyager and Class 221 SuperVoyager trains,[3] though these units cannot work together in service because the Class 222 electrical connections are incompatible with the Class 220 and Class 221 trains.[3] [...]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_222

Needless to say, these are all high platform vehicles.
 
I wonder if DEMUs will get more common as dual power/hybrid/battery designs get more advanced.
You had me digging on the eVoyager (Class 220/1/2 electrified) many of the articles are dated, but found this, right up to date:
Have Bombardier Got A Cunning Plan For Voyagers?
In the July 2018 Edition of Modern Railways, there is an article entitled Bi-Mode Aventra Details Revealed.

A lot of the article takes the form of reporting an interview with Des McKeon, who is Bombardier’s Commercial |Director and Global Head of Regional and Intercity.

This is a paragraph.

He also confirmed Bombardier is examining the option of fitting batteries to Voyager DEMUs for use in stations.

The Voyager family of trains has three members.

The trains have the following characteristics in common.

  • They are diesel electric multiple units.
  • Each car is powered by an underfloor Cummins QSK19 diesel engine of 750 hp/560 kW.
  • They are capable of 125 mph running.
  • Some trains are fitted with tilting, which isn’t used.
  • The trains have rheostatic braking.
  • They meet or could easily meet the latest accessibility regulations for passengers of reduced mobility.
  • Train length appears to be flexible and cars seem to be able to be swapped around in a particular class.
I think it is true to say that the operators have a few problems with these trains.

  • Some passengers think the trains are rather cramped.
  • There is also a noise and vibration problem when the engines are working hard.
  • There have been problems with seawater getting in the resistor banks for the rheostatic braking on Class 220 trains at Dawlish.
  • CrossCpuntry would welcome extra capacity.
  • Both operators would probably welcome better fuel consumption on the trains.
How Would You Fit A Battery To A Voyager?

All these trains seem to be fitted with rheostatic braking.

Effectively, the traction motors generate electricity when they work in reverse to slow the train. On a modern train this electricity is either returned through the electrification to power other trains or stored in a battery.

But on these Voyagers, it is passed through resistors on the roof and used to heat the sky.

Consider these facts for a four-car Class 220 train.

  • The train has an operating speed of 125 mph.
  • Each car has its own diesel engine.
  • The train has a weight of 185.6 tonnes.
  • The train has seats for two hundred passengers.
  • If we assume that each passenger weighs 90 Kg. with their baggage this gives a total train weight of 203.6 tonnes.
Calculating the kinetic energy of the train for various speeds gives

  • 75 mph – 32 kWh
  • 90 mph – 46 kWh
  • 100 mph – 56 kWh
  • 125 mph – 89 kWh.
Every time a train stops, this energy goes to waste.

The simplest thing to do, would be to divert this energy to an appropriately sized battery in each car. As there is four cars in the train, a battery of 50 kWh in each car would probably be sufficient.

If the battery was full, then the energy would still go to the resistors on the roof.

You’ve now got a full battery, but how would you use the energy in a productive manner?

The easiest and probably best thing to do with it, is to power the hotel functions of the train like air-conditioning, lights, doors and toilets. This is an approach taken by Hitachi on their Class 800 trains, as this diagram confirms.



The diagram is contained in this document on the Hitachi Rail web site, which is entitled Development of Class 800/801 High-speed Rolling Stock for UK Intercity Express Programme.

The document is a fascinating read.

Using the energy to power the traction motors and move the train might be possible, but I suspect it might be too complicated and expensive.

The simple system of the braking energy charging the battery and then using this energy for hotel power has advantages, both for Hitachi and Voyagers.

  • The engines generally won’t need to run in a station to provide hotel power,as Des McKeon noted.
  • The control electronics would be reasonably simple.
  • Many of the existing expensive components like engines and traction motors probably wouldn’t need to be changed.
  • There might be maintenance savings on the brakes.
  • Less fuel will need to be expended to provide hotel power.
  • If say the train has to halt perhaps because of a signalling or track fault, hotel power can be provided without running the engines.
  • If batteries are supplying the hotel power, the train may have more power for traction.
I obviously don’t know how independent each car is from the next, but if each is independent, then there could be further advantages in converting, testing and maintaining the cars.

Conclusion

It looks to be a good plan.
https://anonw.com/2018/06/30/have-bombardier-got-a-cunning-plan-for-voyagers/

Which brings us back to the ever-galling need for Metrolinx to apply for a waiver for the UPX corridor, if not the Bramalea-Unionville one for non-FRA compliant stock. So much more could be done with the corridor than is at present at a small cost by using forward electrifiable compatible stock (and still keep the Nippon-Sharyos running, just supplement them for now).

Quoted article states:
You’ve now got a full battery, but how would you use the energy in a productive manner?

The easiest and probably best thing to do with it, is to power the hotel functions of the train like air-conditioning, lights, doors and toilets. This is an approach taken by Hitachi on their Class 800 trains, as this diagram confirms.
This is the "regenerative" feature of the Nippon-Sharyo DMU. Within the limitations of using mundane technology for the UPX cars, someone at Metrolinx was on the ball specifying the ZF 6spd xmssn, and the 'regenerative' feature for the N-S.

There's a lot more that could be done on that route (UPX), however. And the present TC regs form a railblock.
 
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I wonder if DEMUs will get more common as dual power/hybrid/battery designs get more advanced.

You might think that to be the case, especially considering the advent of batteries to provide energy storage whilst braking - but it seems as if there hadn't been any major DEMU developments or orders until the huge IEP project and order for England from a couple of years ago.

Actually, that's not specifically true. Stadler has been pushing diesel-electric multiple units, but they seem to the be the only manufacturer that has.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
^There's been a very interesting development on this with the LINTs, and since Alstom are just opening a new facility in Brampton, as well as an existing one in Ottawa, and Ontario is/was testing the iLINT (Hydrogen fuel cell), this seems all the more pertinent for Metrolinx, as these are available in variable platform models, and 'Nordic' models (wider body for Nordic gauge, closer to North Am ones):
Press releases and news19 Sep 2018
Abellio, Alstom, NASA and Rolls-Royce to implement new hybrid drive solution on Coradia Lint diesel trains
  • Agreement on joint deliberations and preparatory measures for the retrofit of Coradia Lint regional trains from Alstom with MTU hybrid drives
  • Evaluation of service on routes in Saxony-Anhalt, Germany
  • Conversion of the entire fleet of 54 vehicles under consideration
Abellio Rail Mitteldeutschland, Alstom, Nahverkehrsservice Sachsen-Anhalt GmbH (NASA) and Rolls-Royce plan to jointly implement a new hybrid drive solution on Abellio’s fleet of Coradia Lint diesel trains. Today, the four companies agreed to conduct technical feasibility studies regarding the integration of hybrid drives developed by MTU, a Rolls-Royce brand, into Coradia Lint rail vehicles and their use on routes of Dieselnetz Saxony-Anhalt, a diesel-powered rail network in Germany. The four partners plan to sign a contract covering the retrofit of at least three vehicles once the studies have been successfully concluded and financing is secured. To this effect, the companies signed a letter of intent at Innotrans, the world’s leading trade fair for railway and transport technology. Subsequent conversion of the entire fleet of 54 Coradia Lint vehicles is under consideration. The hybrid drives combine a modern diesel engine with an electric motor and batteries to recover braking energy, reducing fuel consumption and CO2 emissions by up to 25 percent. In addition, the ability to run under battery power only can reduce noise pollution in city areas and stations by 75 percent (20 dB(A)).

Stephan Schreier, Managing Director, Operations at Abellio, said: “As one of the largest operators of local rail passenger transport services in Saxony-Anhalt, we are aware of the special role we play in climate protection and, with this project, are pressing ahead unswervingly in the transition to lower-emission solutions.”

Dr Jörg Nikutta, Managing Director Germany and Austria at Alstom, said: “Alternative drive systems have become an important aspect of rail transportation. Alstom has been leading the way in this for many years now to reduce emissions. It is important for us, working with our partners, to add a new feature to our well-proven diesel train Coradia Lint and offer a hybrid traction solution that is quickly available and delivers immediate benefits for travellers and the environment.”

Rüdiger Malter, Managing Director at NASA, said: “The state of Saxony-Anhalt is very active on behalf of alternative drive solutions and low-emission transport. The planned hybrid trains are an important contribution to environmentally friendly rail travel which can be realized within a short time.”

Lars Kräft, Vice President Industrial Business at Rolls-Royce Power Systems, said: “Our MTU Hybrid PowerPack is a pioneering high-tech drive system combining the benefits of battery and diesel-powered trains without the need for additional infrastructure. We look forward to working with our partners to bring this technology into regular service here in Germany.”

Abellio is due to commence passenger services on behalf of the state of Saxony-Anhalt in December 2018 on 16 non-electrified lines in Saxony-Anhalt using 54 Coradia Lint trains. The contract covering the conversion of the first three of these vehicles to MTU hybrid drives is planned to be signed by the end of 2018. The conversion program is expected to take less than three years and will start operating in pilot mode to collect findings related to a normal daily use of a hybrid fleet.

The Coradia Lint is a fuel-efficient diesel multiple unit (DMU) that can reach operating speeds of up to 140 kph. It is powered by two MTU PowerPacks, each based on the MTU Series 1800 engine that meets the strict requirements of the current EU Stage IIIB emissions directive. The Hybrid PowerPack is an even more environmentally friendly version of this proven drive system: It combines an MTU diesel engine plus an electric machine, which can be used either as an electric motor or generator, and the MTU EnergyPack battery system, which stores the energy recovered during braking. This enables very low-noise, emissions-free battery-only electric operation in urban areas and around stations. The total operating costs of rail vehicles with MTU hybrid drives are also significantly lower. Even brake pads and discs have reduced wear due to brake energy recuperation. Because of the additional power of the electric machine, train operators also have the possibility to make up time delays using the improved drive dynamics and acceleration.

The Coradia Lint is part of Alstom’s Coradia range of modular trains which benefit from more than 30 years of service experience and proven technical solutions. Over 2800 Coradia trains have been sold to date, with 2300 of them currently operating in Denmark, France, Germany, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Sweden and Canada.

https://www.alstom.com/press-releas...lls-royce-implement-new-hybrid-drive-solution

Since the Hydrogen test vehicles are already here in Canada, perhaps it will be far easier to convert them to this rather than shipping them back to Europe?

Since City of Ottawa already has a waiver to use these, it would stand to reason that Metrolinx already has a foot in the door to get approval to use these on their own tracks, with temporal separation on the tracks still approved for freight use.
[...]
Vehicle Considerations
The Alstom LINT vehicles currently in production incorporate crash management (CM) specifications that are more stringent than the six vehicles currently operating on the Trillium Line. The City must engage Transport Canada closer to project implementation to determine if the new LINT vehicles will be acceptable to Transport Canada, and if there are issues with running vehicles with a mix of CM specifications on the same line. This will required a detailed review of vehicle specifications and the preparation of a risk assessment by the City, and is estimated to take 12-18 months.
[...]
https://www.stage2lrt.ca/wp-content...ed_Trillium_Line_Functional_Design_Report.pdf

Ostensibly this is already approved by now...

Big debunk from Tree Hugger on Hydrogen trains just a month back: (not that the technically minded didn't already know it)
https://www.treehugger.com/renewable-energy/it-time-hop-hydrogen-train.html
 
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An informative article from Treehugger and it raise some interesting points and valid concerns.

That said, much of their argument against HyRail is that the electricity to create the hydrogen may come from fossil fuels making, in terms of emissions, a zero sum game. In Ontario however there are no coal plants so this is not a concern. The nuclear plants aren't going anywhere anytime soon and are vastly cleaner with almost no emissions and they basically do nothing overnight when the demand is low so the power for the Hyrail is simply making the best use of existing power supply unlike catenary or 3rd rail.

In terms of efficiency, they are less efficient and hence use more electricity increasing operation costs but they don't mention that those increased operational costs are offset by the money saved by not having to electrify the system which in Ontario's case is about a whopping $2 billion. For that $2 billion saved Ontario could set up the hydrogen infrastructure, build the garage/maintenance facilities, and purchase an entire massive fleet of trains. All Ontario would get for it's $2 billion is a bunch of wires using power at peak times. Also that extra $2 billion for wires will be paid for on debt and even at 2% that works out to $40 million a year which cuts a lot of the operation savings down to size.
 
^You overlook that batteries could effectively store the energy far more efficiently and cheaper than electrolysis does for Hydrogen. All those 'expensive wires' are also way to convey that energy, nighttime, daytime, anytime for stationary storage at stations or depots, as well as batteries on board the trains. And all the massive costs and downsides of Hydrogen are avoided doing it.

I wasn't initially a fan of battery powered BEMUs, but efficiency has increased far faster than hydrogen cell technology. And vastly safer.
 

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