Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

nfitz said:
So unsuccessful? Ridership is a bit below target - but does seem to be slowly climbing (I wouldn't take those September/October higher numbers too seriously, given the reports of how many people were using it after Blue Jays games).

It was never predicted or design to have particularly high ridership.

Seems more like the media is just trying to stir the pot ... the bizarre anticipation of both the Star and Globe transportation reporters for this data was telling.
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And the construction at Union must be hurting it. Very confusing weaving through the station with a bag rolling behind you. Luckily I knew where I was going but it was not a pleasant experience getting to the station (once I was there it was very nice though).
 
Transportfan said:
What I don't get is why UPX is so unsuccessful (even after the fare drop) if other cities have successful airport trains.
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Some thoughts:

1) The perception that $27.50 is the fixed cost. Not many people seem to know about the $19.00 PRESTO fare. (This perception was inflated with extensive media coverage)
2) Lack of clear and consistent wayfinding at Pearson Airport (what is this UP symbol??)
3) While some people may be interested in giving it a try (regardless of cost), it might not make sense for people to travel all the way to Union, if you would just end up backtracking (e.g. if you lived anywhere west of downtown)
3.1) If you already paid TTC fare to travel to Union/Bloor/Weston stations, why would you pay an additional fare to travel to the airport, when you could just continue to the airport on the same fare?

I've used the UPX before and I really liked it, but it would have been easier for me, timewise, to just continue taking the subway to Kipling, then take the airport rocket.
 
ottbike said:
Some thoughts:

1) The perception that $27.50 is the fixed cost. Not many people seem to know about the $19.00 PRESTO fare. (This perception was inflated with extensive media coverage)
2) Lack of clear and consistent wayfinding at Pearson Airport (what is this UP symbol??)
3) While some people may be interested in giving it a try (regardless of cost), it might not make sense for people to travel all the way to Union, if you would just end up backtracking (e.g. if you lived anywhere west of downtown)
3.1) If you already paid TTC fare to travel to Union/Bloor/Weston stations, why would you pay an additional fare to travel to the airport, when you could just continue to the airport on the same fare?

I've used the UPX before and I really liked it, but it would have been easier for me, timewise, to just continue taking the subway to Kipling, then take the airport rocket.
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4) UPX wasn't made for everyone. If you live a bit of a distance away from a UPX station, you're not the intended customer.

The vast majority of airport patrons are headed to/from downtown. Tourists head downtown and stay in hotels there. Businesses travellers are focused on — you guessed it — the central business district, which is a 5-15 minute walk from Union Station. Bonus demographic: the condos where hundreds of thousands of Torontonians live are within a walk of the UPX station. Pulling my luggage behind me, I get from my front door to UPX in 14 minutes. I live at King and Spadina so I walk to the CN Tower and take the SkyWalk the rest of the way.

People who live outside of this walking radius don't get the point, and they're right. The problem is that people generally think of themselves first and can't understand how an element of public infrastructure wasn't made for them. UPX serves downtown travellers, and that's always been the intention.
 
^Not arguing those points, but Metrolinx may have been a bit optimistic with their target levels for downtown travelers who would be within a reasonable catchment area of the UPX, or see incentive to take it in the first place.

In the end, it might just take time (June 2016 I think they estimated) to gather a solid customer base. The other side of it is that the media and public are generally outraged to see "empty" trains running, so Metrolinx is under intense public pressure to change the status quo - i.e. lower the fares.
 
I think that they're doing the right things. It's one of those products that once you've experienced it, you love it and won't go back to the old way. So, offering freebies to get people to try it is definitely going to capture some new regular users.

I used to take the subway to Kipling and the airport rocket from there but on the way back, I'm always tired from my flight so I rationalize the $50 cab ride and write it off in my conscience as a travel expense. Compared to that, $19 is a bargain! I walk the 15 minutes from Union to home and would never go back to taking cabs. Metrolinx is counting on a lot of those epiphanies to fill its trains in the long term and I think that it's a good bet to make.
 
I think that Metrolinx should work with airlines behind the scenes. Transfer that psychological expense from a cash expense that people don't build into their travel budgets and make it a part of their airfare. If Air Canada were to offer an option for "Check in downtown and express train to the airport" when I bought the flight, I'd pay the extra $20 bucks.

They could also make it a free perk for Aeroplan members. Air Canada would negotiate a deal with Metrolinx to allow all of its members to check in at an an Air Canada desk at UPX Union Station and board the train.

I believe that the problem resides in people having the option of paying $3 or $19 at the moment they walk out of their door and head to the airport. Build that into the moment that they're spending hundreds of dollars on a flight and most people won't hesitate.

There's still so much to explore before they decide to reduce the price and operate at a loss, and much further still before they give up, write it all off and make it a commuter line.
 
I can see that working, since the Union Stn UPX terminal is basically a branch of Pearson Airport, and has check-in machines if I remember correctly. If you could check in at Union with the UPX fare included with your air fare, you could choose for example to cab to Union Station rather than all the way out to Pearson. This may already have been discussed behind the scenes, but maybe with not enough corporate interest?

You can currently book a VIA rail trip "directly" to Pearson Airport, and the UPX ticket is included in the fare price.

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The UPX just isn't as convenient as other air rail links around the world. When I was in Hong Kong, I was able to buy a 3 day transit pass for $210 HKD (approx $38) and it included an Airport Express trip to get back to the airport. A one day pass was $60 HKD so it was a no brainer. They also had mini buses from all major hotels which would pick you up right at your hotel door drop you off at the train station. At the train station you could check your luggage and then get on the train. It was super convenient since you didn't have to lug your luggage through the subway, and didn't have to worry about your luggage once you got to the train station.

The UPX on the other hand isn't integrated with the TTC in any way, involves lugging your luggage through union station and into the skywalk, and they don't have any kind of in-town check in. I live downtown and see no reason to use it. I live right on top of a subway station so I'd rather just get on the subway and then take the 192 than rolling my luggage 500m through union station.
 
MetroMan said:
I think that Metrolinx should work with airlines behind the scenes. Transfer that psychological expense from a cash expense that people don't build into their travel budgets and make it a part of their airfare. If Air Canada were to offer an option for "Check in downtown and express train to the airport" when I bought the flight, I'd pay the extra $20 bucks.

They could also make it a free perk for Aeroplan members. Air Canada would negotiate a deal with Metrolinx to allow all of its members to check in at an an Air Canada desk at UPX Union Station and board the train.

I believe that the problem resides in people having the option of paying $3 or $19 at the moment they walk out of their door and head to the airport. Build that into the moment that they're spending hundreds of dollars on a flight and most people won't hesitate.

There's still so much to explore before they decide to reduce the price and operate at a loss, and much further still before they give up, write it all off and make it a commuter line.
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The only fare structure change I think they should consider at this time (or at least consider if they are building a "plan B") is how the fares are structured on trips that do not include Pearson.

They might get a lot less "look at those empty trains...what a waste" negative reaction if the someone boarding at Weston to go to Bloor/Union was paying $5.03 rather than what they are paying now. Perhaps even if you could do that you might not have to stop the GO trains at Weston and (thinking back to the story the other day) there might be room for the Via rail trains to stop there. Details would have to be worked out but they could maintain that $19 to the airport fare while building ridership by offering GO fares on the other trips.

But, in general, I agree (and have since day one) that this needs time to build and scrapping it too early is a big mistake.
 
Assuming worst case, if the UPX brand were to be ditched for some other type of service (Smarttrack?), at least there would be the guideway into Pearson, which is arguably the most important asset to come out of this project.
 
I've taken the UP a few times over the past months. I really like it. It's fast, reliable, clean and low stress. (although I'd agree that $19 is probably a little steep).
Last week I decided I would try the subway and 192. All this talk about how it's just as easy for most people...and only $3.25!

So living in the east end I've got some good transit options. 501/506/VP/Main/Woodbine subways.

I jump on the subway at VP....then the dreaded mumble over the intercom..."there are signal issues between Pape and Yonge..."
A couple of minutes stopped in the tunnel between each station.. and a couple of minutes in each station. I estimate it took about 10 minutes to get to Coxwell.
Off I jump...a $10 uber and I'm down at Union and on the UP again. Quick, now stress-free. (and I would say it was probably 60% full).

So in the end - it's great to have multiple options. But if you have a flight you need to make, and given the reliability issues we all talk about on the TTC, I'm not sure I would place all my faith in the subway/192 option. I'll probably try it again - but give myself an extra hour to get there.
What is an hour of your time worth?
 
nfitz said:
So unsuccessful? Ridership is a bit below target - but does seem to be slowly climbing (I wouldn't take those September/October higher numbers too seriously, given the reports of how many people were using it after Blue Jays games).

It was never predicted or design to have particularly high ridership.

Seems more like the media is just trying to stir the pot ... the bizarre anticipation of both the Star and Globe transportation reporters for this data was telling.
Click to expand...
Good news doesn't come out at 4pm on Friday. Everyone who watched the West Wing knows that ("Take Out The Trash Day")
 
yyztvguy said:
A couple of minutes stopped in the tunnel between each station.. and a couple of minutes in each station. I estimate it took about 10 minutes to get to Coxwell.
Off I jump...a $10 uber and I'm down at Union and on the UP again. Quick, now stress-free. (and I would say it was probably 60% full).
Click to expand...
Couldn't you have just taken an uber to the airport directly for $30?
 
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