Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

[crs1026]

this notion that all business travel is about is submitting expense claims without a care in the world is not reality....and hasn't been at any time during my 30 year career spanning multiple companies.

True. A great many (most?) companies have plenty of auditors and accounting clerks who challenge even trivial expenses. And civil servants get twice this scrutiny these days. I know of a CEO who was challenged by an auditor on why he took a short cab ride across downtown Toronto instead of using the subway.

If a company is wooing a customer or client - yeah, the sky's the limit. It happens, but not all the employees all the time.

In UPX's case, sucking up to the business traveller was misplaced. UPX's cost and time advantages are sufficient and sell themselves. And, there are probably more coach travellers (business or otherwise) in the potential user pool than hi-priced 'suits'. For this bigger group, the elitism grates.

- Paul

 

[TOareaFan]

True. A great many (most?) companies have plenty of auditors and accounting clerks who challenge even trivial expenses. And civil servants get twice this scrutiny these days. I know of a CEO who was challenged by an auditor on why he took a short cab ride across downtown Toronto instead of using the subway.

If a company is wooing a customer or client - yeah, the sky's the limit. It happens, but not all the employees all the time.

In UPX's case, sucking up to the business traveller was misplaced. UPX's cost and time advantages are sufficient and sell themselves. And, there are probably more coach travellers (business or otherwise) in the potential user pool than hi-priced 'suits'. For this bigger group, the elitism grates.

- Paul

On the very rare ocassion that an auditor questions expenses we have a standard "screw off, it was as business decision and we operate within our budget" answer to them.

Operationally, we make decisions....but I can tell you that if I was travelling from another city to meet a client in Toronto and I missed the meeting because "my cab got stuck in traffic" I would fully expect my boss to ask me "was there no other way to get in to avoid the traffic"...that is what cost/time efficiency is about. It may take some time and word of mouth to get around but eventually business people landing at Pearson will learn the fastest (and happens to be cheaper) way to get downtown form Pearson is UP.

Also, if 3 people travelling from city X get stuck in traffic and miss a meeting and say to their boss the line "we took a cab because $55 was cheaper than 3 X $27.50 (assuming they don't want to get a Presto) they should fully expect to hear "what? you put the meeting at risk because you thought you were saving us a few dollars?"

 

[nfitz]

... they should fully expect to hear "what? you put the meeting at risk because you thought you were saving us a few dollars?"

LOL ... and "what do you mean you didn't take the 407 and instead spent an hour stuck on the 401".

 

[TOareaFan]

LOL ... and "what do you mean you didn't take the 407 and instead spent an hour stuck on the 401".

exactly.....if you trust people enough to travel on your behalf you have to trust them to make the right call....and only when something stupid happens (like your example) do they get questioned.

Our biggest issues usually arise out of things like alcohol/wine. There is a wide variety of prices on wines and striving to find the right balance of price/quality(impressiveness) is a challenge. I tell our young guys to decide on a variety of wine/grape then order the second cheapest one on the list.....but, often, we are entertaining folks who consider themselves "experts" and they take control and order the wine...then you just have to suck it up. But things like transportation choices are left to judgement......yes there will be travel snobs (idiots) who will never get out of the cab/limo but, generally, people are looking for the right option that works best.

 

[picard102]

$19 is for the rich!?! I see a lot of people who aren't rich paying $50 for a cab. And $25 to check a bag.

And the cost of a cab from Union Station to wherever it is you are actually trying to get to.
Unless someone else is paying for it, or you live next to Union, it's not priced to be a viable option for regular people to utilize.

 

[TOareaFan]

And the cost of a cab from Union Station to wherever it is you are actually trying to get to.
Unless someone else is paying for it, or you live next to Union, it's not priced to be a viable option for regular people to utilize.

There are thousands of people (hundreds of thousands?) who are "regular" people who live near either the Bloor or Union stops on this line that can utilize it easily to get to the airport. Is it cheap enough to be used as everyday transit between stops...likely not but that is ok because that is not its purpose...is it cheap enough for "regular" people to consider as an alternative to cabs/drive-park access to the airport....you betchya it is.

 

[picard102]

If you live within walking distance of Bloor, and are traveling alone. Sure, it's probably worth it.
But to say it's not priced for "the rich" by saying people within walking distance can use it, that's a ridiculous standard.

 

[TOareaFan]

If you live within walking distance of Bloor, and are traveling alone. Sure, it's probably worth it.
But to say it's not priced for "the rich" by saying people within walking distance can use it, that's a ridiculous standard.

you and I may be using a different definition of "rich" and that may be leading to a needless "argument" about this.....but when I look at the condos that are an easy walk to the union station I don't think they are full of "rich" people....but I think I do see people that if they were travelling on holiday can afford $19 for their trip to the airport...particularly if that is $36 cheaper than the cab they were gonna take.

 

[PL1]

If you live within walking distance of Bloor, and are traveling alone. Sure, it's probably worth it.
But to say it's not priced for "the rich" by saying people within walking distance can use it, that's a ridiculous standard.

We went to Stockholm this summer, took the Arlanda Express, then the T-Bana (subway/metro) to our hotel. Stockholm is very expensive in general. The ARL Express cost us 300 SEK (about $45 at the time) for 2 adults with kids free, then we bought a 72-hour pass for transit for each of us (230 SEK +20 for the card ~$38 each); single rides are 25 SEK ($3.50) with a fare card/36 SEK without; kid was per fare. It was definitely more per person than for the UPX + TTC. But compared to some international cities at least, UPX cost isn't outlandish.

I live in the east end, so UPX is not likely to be convenient for me. I don't mind the long subway ride and bus to the airport.

To me it's a question of how much your time is worth. If you are starting from close to Union (for example), you get a trip of a known duration. Cab may be more convenient, but you have to deal with traffic. TTC only is cheap, but the are many stops and always the potential for delays.

TL;DR: UPX +TTC isn't ridiculously expensive in the international context.

(Pardon the rambling cell phone post)

 

[salsa]

There are thousands of people (hundreds of thousands?) who are "regular" people who live near either the Bloor or Union stops on this line that can utilize it easily to get to the airport. Is it cheap enough to be used as everyday transit between stops...likely not but that is ok because that is not its purpose...is it cheap enough for "regular" people to consider as an alternative to cabs/drive-park access to the airport....you betchya it is.

There may be thousands of people, but if the empty trains are any indication, many of those people are not taking the train.

 

[picard102]

but when I look at the condos that are an easy walk to the union station I don't think they are full of "rich" people.

I would say people that can afford owning or renting near Union station, and have enough to take a vacation, are well off.

 

[TOareaFan]

There may be thousands of people, but if the empty trains are any indication, many of those people are not taking the train.

you are absolutely correct ...it is taking time to get the message out....but that was not the discussion I was having with captain picard.......he was saying it was of no use to regular folk only the rich....I was simply disputing that and recognizing that he and I have a different defitition, perhaps, of "rich"...his latest post confirms that....so there is no point furthering the discussion as we are talking at cross purposes.

 

[LNahid2000]

There are thousands of people (hundreds of thousands?) who are "regular" people who live near either the Bloor or Union stops on this line that can utilize it easily to get to the airport. Is it cheap enough to be used as everyday transit between stops...likely not but that is ok because that is not its purpose...is it cheap enough for "regular" people to consider as an alternative to cabs/drive-park access to the airport....you betchya it is.

I live at Yonge and Bloor and had a 8am flight out of Pearson last week. I looked into taking the UPE since I thought it would allow me to sleep in a little longer, but when I looked at the schedules, the difference between the TTC and the UPE was 5 minutes. I didn't think 5 minutes was worth $15+, so I took the TTC.

I did use Hong Kong's airport express the other day though, and thought it was excellent. They have shuttles from all the hotels to the train station every 12 minutes, in-town check in, and the trip only cost me $5 HKD (which is less than a dollar!). The difference between buying 3 day passes ($55 HKD per day x 3 days) and buying a 3 day pass with an airport express trip included ($220 HKD - $50 refundable deposit) was $5 HKD so it was a no brainer.

 

[nfitz]

And the cost of a cab from Union Station to wherever it is you are actually trying to get to.
Unless someone else is paying for it, or you live next to Union, it's not priced to be a viable option for regular people to utilize.

How does that make it a shuttle for the rich?

 

[Napoleon]

you are absolutely correct ...it is taking time to get the message out....but that was not the discussion I was having with captain picard.......he was saying it was of no use to regular folk only the rich

I live at Yonge and Bloor and had a 8am flight out of Pearson last week. I looked into taking the UPE since I thought it would allow me to sleep in a little longer, but when I looked at the schedules, the difference between the TTC and the UPE was 5 minutes. I didn't think 5 minutes was worth $15+, so I took the TTC.

Well, I'm in the category of people that are neither rich nor poor and don't live in walking distance of Union or Bloor. I do think I'm in the segment of the population that UPX would like to capture, however. I travel somewhat often for work, but am constrained by a budget. In my personal travel, yes, I realize that I'm paying $500 to fly somewhere. I see the arguments put forward that it's only $19 (plus $3 for TTC) for UPX which is nothing compared to the cost of the flight; however, I still do a cost-benefit analysis.

As LNahid put it above, the question is just how much time-savings per dollar will I get with UPX. Regardless of going all-TTC or UPX, it's a streetcar ride to Dundas West (around $3). From here I have two choices (leaving out taxi or UberX):

• TTC: 15 minutes to Kipling and 19 minutes on the 192 bus: 34 minutes with a gap in headways of about 10 minutes. Additional Cost: $0
• UPX: 6 minute walk to the station plus 17 minutes on the UPX : 23 minutes with a gap in headways of about 15 minutes. Additional Cost: $15.20 Presto, $22 non-Presto

So for anyone taking the TTC to Dundas West, the math is just a bit challenging. Is saving ~10 minutes worth $15? That's 40 seconds per dollar in time-savings. This is the kind of question non-rich travelers think about. Of course, I would prefer to sit on a comfy train to the 192 bus, that's why for me it still really is a premium service. Although, in winter the outdoor walk between stations is an extra disincentive even for premium passengers. If it were $5 to go from Bloor to Pearson, I would probably take UPX, but at current rates, my time is not worth $90/hour sadly.