Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

Napoleon said:
Your images say it all, both positive and negative. For your morning flight, one would think this would be a great time to use UPX to avoid any risk of traffic, and yet you appear to be the only passenger on the train. On the positive side, the train looks beautiful and it sounds like a very smooth experience.

If they would just experiment with the price point a bit, maybe they could fill the trains up!
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Seriously, it's not the price point. It really isn't. The cost is $19 versus $50+ for a cab for vastly superior service from Union. Anyone who stays at the Royal York or Delta and doesn't use it should have their head examined. If you're at the Sheraton? Maybe a cab if you're lazy or obese. Maybe.

What they need is word of mouth. A cold snap where somebody is whingeing about slush getting out of a cab, and somebody else at the meeting says, "I took the train in, and I haven't even been outside. I could have left my winter coat in Montreal/New York/Calgary!"

Great service.
 
Riverdale Rink Rat said:
Seriously, it's not the price point. It really isn't. The cost is $19 versus $50+ for a cab for vastly superior service from Union. Anyone who stays at the Royal York or Delta and doesn't use it should have their head examined. If you're at the Sheraton? Maybe a cab if you're lazy or obese. Maybe.

What they need is word of mouth. A cold snap where somebody is whingeing about slush getting out of a cab, and somebody else at the meeting says, "I took the train in, and I haven't even been outside. I could have left my winter coat in Montreal/New York/Calgary!"

Great service.
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This is exactly why now would be the wrong time to experiment with pricing......they need to let this go through the entire year cycle and see how it performs/grows.

If next June, a year after launching, they have not shown any growth...sure, look at pricing (although, I am with you that it can't be pricing...compared to the options it is fairly cheap and offers good value).

Let people discover it, measure it after an appropriate time and then discuss options.
 
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TOareaFan said:
This is exactly why now would be the wrong time to experiment with pricing......they need to let this go through the entire year cycle and see how it performs/grows.

If next June, a year after launching, they have not shown any growth...sure, look at pricing (although, I am with you that it can't be pricing...compared to the options it is fairly cheap and offers good value).

Let people discover it, measure it after an appropriate time and then discuss options.
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Agreed. IMO we are to partially blame for the so far lukewarm numbers due to the negativity that we spewed out on it in regards to cost and exclusivity. I think that had we had a more positive attitude towards this people wouldnt have dismissed this
as a white elephant before the first trains even departed the station.
 
cplchanb said:
Agreed. IMO we are to partially blame for the so far lukewarm numbers due to the negativity that we spewed out on it in regards to cost and exclusivity. I think that had we had a more positive attitude towards this people wouldnt have dismissed this
as a white elephant before the first trains even departed the station.
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Not sure who you mean by "we".....but I have long said the biggest (perhaps only) mistake made in the launch was the failure of the communications team to grab hold of the message and, instead, let the media continually run stories with "$27.50 fare each way" and "business elite" in almost all of them. Anyone paying $27.50 is a volunteering to pay the higher fare and if they had done a better job of controlling the message the $19 fare would have received far more coverage....and the "business elite" message might have been replaced with "travellers to and from the city" and perhaps included "people in the NW of the city going to Jays/Leafs/Concerts and avoiding traffic and $35 event parking fees".....but most people I speak to that have not used it still think the fare is "nearly $30 each way" and that is a shame.
 
If I was the marketing team for UP, I'd pitch the Royal / Telus / PWC HR/travel expense VP on the win/win of providing free Presto cards to their staff if they use the service. Since Presto is totally transferable, Telus could have a bunch of passes preloaded and hand them to staff as they head out of the building to catch their flight. No need to expense the cab, more convenient, and within a month the employees are on board.

Maybe throw in a free Balzac's or Mill St. coupon as a perk to the actual rider?
 
Napoleon said:
If they would just experiment with the price point a bit, maybe they could fill the trains up!
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Price is reasonable. I paid $19 each way with my new Presto card, plus $15 for the Uber Taxi ride from Cabbagetown to Union. Had I taken a taxi or limo to the airport it would be at least $60 each way. Parking my car over the weekend would be about as much. In the end, my employer covers the cost regardless, so for me it was more novelty and test ride. I'm a convert now, this is my way to the airport going forward, especially if traveling solo.
 
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TOareaFan said:
Anyone paying $27.50 is a volunteering to pay the higher fare and if they had done a better job of controlling the message the $19 fare would have received far more coverage.
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Well a big problem for visitors to our city is the psychological (and perhaps to some degree financial) barrier to purchasing the Presto card to avoid paying the higher fare. The minimum one-way fare for a traveller to Toronto with a new card included is $25. My parents recently visited Toronto. Had they taken the UPX, they would have spent ($19 UPX fare + $6 Presto card + $3 TTC fare) x 2 = $56. Instead, the flat rate taxi fare is $45 (plus a dollar or two in fuel surcharge), so of course they did that. Going back to the airport, it would have cost $44 for the two of them. Instead, I put them in an UberX for $32.

Most TTC users don't have Presto cards either (a survey of this board of transit enthusiasts is not representative). I have a Presto card, but I don't always have it on me because for now I can only use it on at most 10% of the TTC trips I take. So, the reality of the situation is somewhere in between these two fares that have been bandied about. Also, for those not going to walking distance of Union Station, it's not necessarily faster or cheaper.
 
^it is not going to be faster and cheaper for all....that was never stated by anyone. It is a core-airport service...always has been and always was designed that way. For people making that trip it is, both, easier and cheaper to do it by train.

As for people not having a Presto card...that is true...that will change over time....but even today, if you are taking your first UP trip to the airport it takes +/- 5 minutes at the same station you have to go to anyway to purchase the card....and it saves you money on your very first trip. "not having a presto card" is no reason to pay $27.50 for this trip.
 
I'm amazed the Drake General Store and Balzac booths are still open. Every time I go by the employees are playing on their phones looking bored.
 
mjl08 said:
I'm amazed the Drake General Store and Balzac booths are still open. Every time I go by the employees are playing on their phones looking bored.
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I'm sure they have a sweetheart first year lease. At 5:45am, there was a group of guys drinking Balzac's coffee in front of the kiosk, that didn't get on the train.

How often do you go by? Do you ever buy a coffee?
 
Napoleon said:
Well a big problem for visitors to our city is the psychological (and perhaps to some degree financial) barrier to purchasing the Presto card to avoid paying the higher fare. The minimum one-way fare for a traveller to Toronto with a new card included is $25. My parents recently visited Toronto. Had they taken the UPX, they would have spent ($19 UPX fare + $6 Presto card + $3 TTC fare) x 2 = $56. Instead, the flat rate taxi fare is $45 (plus a dollar or two in fuel surcharge), so of course they did that. Going back to the airport, it would have cost $44 for the two of them. Instead, I put them in an UberX for $32.

Most TTC users don't have Presto cards either (a survey of this board of transit enthusiasts is not representative). I have a Presto card, but I don't always have it on me because for now I can only use it on at most 10% of the TTC trips I take. So, the reality of the situation is somewhere in between these two fares that have been bandied about. Also, for those not going to walking distance of Union Station, it's not necessarily faster or cheaper.
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Where were your parents going?

Your last point is the one I find the most puzzling. You state the obvious -- this is a service designed to get someone from Pearson to Union, or vice versa. If you're grabbing the train to Niagara/Kingston or the GO to Hamilton/Oshawa, it might or might not be better to grab a bus or taxi from Pearson. If you're going to a hotel at Bloor & Avenue Road, you might make the switch at Bloor. But, those are not the core demographic. The core demographic is 'folks going to downtown Toronto.'
 
Riverdale Rink Rat said:
But, those are not the core demographic. The core demographic is 'folks going to downtown Toronto.'
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Statistically this may be true, but I hope UPX isn't thinking that way. The times I have used Bloor station for the GO, I have noticed the UPX business there to be pretty good, as a % of ridership on the UXP. This may get even better once the station is finished and there's a proper place to grab a cab and/or reach the subway directly. At ay event, I'm speculating that most of these travellers do carry on by public transit as Bloor/Dundas really isn't much of a destination. UPX should be marketing to people "making connections" and not just heading for places immediately adjacent to UPX's doorstep.

It would be interesting to know where people go when they leave Union or Bloor. What proportion carry on by cab? Uber? TTC? GO? VIA? Foot? I suspect UPX does this kind of market analysis.

"Going downtown" covers a lot of turf. It includes business travellers, tourists, and people living/visiting in all those high rise buildings. It's a long hike by taxi up to the 401 even from Eglinton, but an easy transit ride to Union - so "downtown" potentially includes destinations all the way up there.

- Paul
 
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