Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

You know this does raise an interesting point though. Once you clear the security doors the Taxis and Public transit are literally right there for you while taking the UP train requires travelling 3 floors up an elevator/escalator to get to the station.

For someone getting out and looking for a ride the sight of a line of Taxis waiting vs the thought of travelling up a few floors in a strange place. I can see why they might choose the taxi option.

I have not traveled much and so I don't know how other airports have their stations placed. I would imagine most would expect a train to be located fairly closely at their level or below ground.
 
Woodbridge_Heights said:
You know this does raise an interesting point though. Once you clear the security doors the Taxis and Public transit are literally right there for you while taking the UP train requires travelling 3 floors up an elevator/escalator to get to the station.

For someone getting out and looking for a ride the sight of a line of Taxis waiting vs the thought of travelling up a few floors in a strange place. I can see why they might choose the taxi option.

I have not traveled much and so I don't know how other airports have their stations placed. I would imagine most would expect a train to be located fairly closely at their level or below ground.
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At Roissy / Charles de Gaulle, the taxis are out front and the RER is a major hike through an outdoor tunnel.

The major benefits: 1. Taxis are very expensive in Paris while the train is cheap. 2. If you're not going into Paris, you can take some TGV trains directly from the airport to your destination (i.e. Lille, Lyons, Marseille, etc.)

Unfortunately, travelling west usually involves RER/subway to Montparnasse to grab the TGV to Nantes/Rennes and then on to Brittany.
 
Napoleon said:
By the way, no one linked to this, but Steve Munro posted the actual Metrolynx ridership numbers:
https://swanboatsteve.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/ridership-summary-20150921.pdf
Looks like ridership is down 20% in September to date compared to June. The highest ridership in September was 3,420 which is quite an aberration from the overall daily average of 2289. The lowest ridership is a Saturday with only 1,144.
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I also wonder if the HOV lanes on the Gardiner changed behavior during the PanAm Games. The ride in/out of downtown was much quicker for most of the summer if you went via taxi. Now that construction has started again I would expect ridership to increase throughout Sept & Oct
 
If you have 3 car trains that run at twice the frequency than 15 minutes, you can get up to 2000 riders per hour. So a fare calculation can be made based on something like that.
 
M II A II R II K said:
If you have 3 car trains that run at twice the frequency than 15 minutes, you can get up to 2000 riders per hour. So a fare calculation can be made based on something like that.
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I doubt it if Metrolinx can run trains more frequently. The UP Express is only compatible with a particular type of train with a low capacity, and Metrolinx would have to purchase more rolling stock. Since Union only has one platform, Metrolinx can't increase frequency very much. 10 minute headways might be possible but 7.5 minute would be really difficult.

Given how low the ridership is, the last thing Metrolinx is going to do is to buy more rolling stock. They could probably charge $10 and the current trains would be adequate to handle the demand. On the other hand, they can't charge the same as a TTC fare ($2.80) because the trains would be so crowded that no one could get on, and 12-car GO trains would be an absolute necessity, which would mean completely rebuilding the UPX.
 
You can't project numbers on the current fleet as they will be gone within 5 years or less depending on the electrification of the line.

Not that hard to move to DD EMU where you can run 1-3 cars trains. Even staying at the current configuration, you will move more with the EMU than what could take place down the road with the current fleet.

There is no reason not to get down to 5 minute headway other than dispatching.
 
drum118 said:
You can't project numbers on the current fleet as they will be gone within 5 years or less depending on the electrification of the line.

Not that hard to move to DD EMU where you can run 1-3 cars trains. Even staying at the current configuration, you will move more with the EMU than what could take place down the road with the current fleet.

There is no reason not to get down to 5 minute headway other than dispatching.
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I thought that the current rolling stock was designed to be converted to electric operation.

In any case, I think that in a few years, the UP Express spur will have to be completely rebuilt to accommodate regular 12-car electric GO trains. This will be the "SmartTrack" line. The UP Express will cease to exist once this is finished, and will be replaced with a regular GO train that makes numerous intermediate stops and charges regular GO fares. Since the UP Express spur cannot accommodate regular GO trains, it will have to be completely rebuilt at a cost of several billion dollars.
 
andrewpmk said:
I thought that the current rolling stock was designed to be converted to electric operation.
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They are, it's just that Metrolinx has recently deemed it more feasible to purchase a new fleet of EMU's for the line and transfer the existing DMU's to a lower ridership GO corridor.

I'm not sure what the cost difference is between the two options are though, perhaps another member has the answer to that.
 
andrewpmk said:
I thought that the current rolling stock was designed to be converted to electric operation.

In any case, I think that in a few years, the UP Express spur will have to be completely rebuilt to accommodate regular 12-car electric GO trains. This will be the "SmartTrack" line. The UP Express will cease to exist once this is finished, and will be replaced with a regular GO train that makes numerous intermediate stops and charges regular GO fares. Since the UP Express spur cannot accommodate regular GO trains, it will have to be completely rebuilt at a cost of several billion dollars.
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That was the original plan which I thought was dumb in the first place.

I posted early this week that the current fleet will move to low ridership routes for all day service and be replace with EMU that are better than the current fleet.

There is no need for 12 car trains to service the airport. Once we move to all day service, shorter trains will be only needed outside of peak time.

The only rebuilding of the spur that will be require is building is a T connection to be able to come/go in opposite direction that should happen during the construction of it.
 
drum118 said:
That was the original plan which I thought was dumb in the first place.

I posted early this week that the current fleet will move to low ridership routes for all day service and be replace with EMU that are better than the current fleet.

There is no need for 12 car trains to service the airport. Once we move to all day service, shorter trains will be only needed outside of peak time.

The only rebuilding of the spur that will be require is building is a T connection to be able to come/go in opposite direction that should happen during the construction of it.
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Do you know which line the current fleet will move to?

I'm guessing Barrie line since double tracking is already coming along nicely and it has the second lowest ridership of the GO network?
 
robmausser said:
Do you know which line the current fleet will move to?

I'm guessing Barrie line since double tracking is already coming along nicely and it has the second lowest ridership of the GO network?
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No I don't.

What is the lowest ridership line and you got your answer to which line. This is still 5 years out at this time.
 
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