Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

[TOareaFan]

It's *IN* the Skywalk, but closer to York than Simcoe.

it is practically right above York. The west york teamway stairs and elevator (by the GoodLife doors) take you right to it.

 

[LNahid2000]

each will make their own call but if you are going to add 5-10 minute walk from the UPe station at the airport to your gate...then don't you have to add a 7 - 12 minute walk from the bus terminal at the airport to your gate also?

It's not a 7 to 12 minute walk between the bus stop at the airport and your gate. The UPX Station is maybe a 2 minute walk closer to your gate than the bus stop is, if that.

 

[TOareaFan]

It's not a 7 to 12 minute walk between the bus stop at the airport and your gate. The UPX Station is maybe a 2 minute walk closer to your gate than the bus stop is, if that.

I don't think it is a 7 - 12 minute walk either....but since the post I responded to added 5 - 10 minutes for walking from UPe to gate....I bumped those by 2 minutes...which, remarkably, matches your number

 

[rbt]

I don't think it is a 7 - 12 minute walk either....but since the post I responded to added 5 - 10 minutes for walking from UPe to gate....I bumped those by 2 minutes...which, remarkably, matches your number

Pier F is about 350m long and attaches to a terminal that's about 100m wide (from the bus stop to the security checkpoint); and you don't really get to walk in a straight line.

Wouldn't surprise me if the Pier F transatlantic gates were an 800m walk from the 192 bus stop if you chose to avoid the moving walkways.

 

[TOareaFan]

Pier F is about 350m long and attaches to a terminal that's about 100m wide (from the bus stop to the security checkpoint); and you don't really get to walk in a straight line.

Wouldn't surprise me if the Pier F transatlantic gates were an 800m walk from the 192 bus stop if you chose to avoid the moving walkways.

I have never measured any of those things....i do know that on the occasions that I have taken the rocket/GO/Brampton Transit (have a bit of experience with all 3) to the airport it has taken me slightly longer to get to my check in machines than when I walk across the bridge from, either, the parking lot or the link.

2 minutes seemed a good estimate.

Irrespective, my point was people will make their own judgement but there is no value on these boards of making an "argument" for one over the other and including the false assumption that there needs to be padding of time for the walk from UPe to gate but no padding of time from the 192 to the gate...that is all I was pointing out.

 

[mdrejhon]

There are going to also be people who prefer the UPX over taking the bus, even if the bus is usually faster.
Yes, not everyone.
But there will be some people who will take UPX even if total trip takes 10 minutes longer.

• More fun and relaxing, more legroom, bigger seats, better scenery, better climate control.
• Seat more guaranteed. No midsummer standing on the 192 rocket with other sweat-drenched bag luggers.
• Free WiFi. (good opportunity for online airline check-in)
• Airport departure boards on the train.
• Room temperature all 365 days at platform edge at Union & Pearson! No freezing or sweating with your bag!
• Ride is more comfortable and smooth, especially for people who get nauseous with bus/taxi movements.
• No cramped, smelly, sometimes rude, tight-legroom, herky-jerky stop-and-go taxis or discount limos.
• No worry about later traffic, like an upcoming slower-than-usual 401. Luck of the draw.
• Premium transit also tend to stay sparkly clean and better-smelling.
• Nice waiting lounge with microbrewery beer and ultrapremium cafe. Less stressful waiting.
• Shorter walk to most checkin booths than any other public transit option (even with LINK people mover).
• Consistency. 20-minute bus rides can become a 40-minute bus ride with construction or accidents.
• Sudden peace of mind the very moment you step into UPX at last-minute, "wow, my calm is worth the train fare"
• Full of energy, not tired, not sweating, not freezing, no stairs, no last-minute panic even 1h15min before flight.
• Even for families ($55 deal). Calmer mommies, train novelty, and spacious train means calmer kids.
• UPX becomes part of the vacation.

Yeah, yea, I know it sounds like an advertorial -- but this is true of world city $15-$45 airport trains (Tokyo, London, Hong Kong). This is why some people are slowly warming up to UPX. By the time it's operating for a year, and when Metrolinx announces it has better farebox recovery than TTC/GO (aka better than the population expects it), positive public opinion will probably go up to 60-70% rather than 45%-ish. Sure, some early and late trains will be empty-ish, but Metrolinx will have lots of photos of packed 3-car trains during peak moments when an A380 arrives at the same time as a 747. Many surge moments at airports. UPX's main problem is going to be standees on 3-car trains during that surge moment, and Metrolinx being forced to provide a standee discount, will confound the naysayers. Dumbfounded critics wonder what the hoopla is, rides it, and loves it.

Not everyone will like UPX, but you can rest assured that *some* riders taking UPX are taking it anyway even if other means will be a little bit faster. I say this even though I have mixed feelings about how expensive the UPX capital costs were, and how it will eat up Georgetown Corridor capacity (for now). Even if UPX went a few minutes slower than the 192 Rocket, I still prefer UPX if I can easily get to Union at a predictable time (e.g. Yonge-Eglinton, and that I checked there's no TTC delay).

Approval rating will slowly go up, just like it did for Tokyo/London/HongKong $15-$45 premium airport trains after they have been actually operating for a while. Yes, the capital cost was stupendously (or stupidly) expensive, but it's here to stay probably for our current lifetime... An awful long time for every single naysayer to totally avoid riding UPX -- at least a few of those are going to go "what the heck, why not".

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

Pier F is about 350m long and attaches to a terminal that's about 100m wide (from the bus stop to the security checkpoint); and you don't really get to walk in a straight line.

Wouldn't surprise me if the Pier F transatlantic gates were an 800m walk from the 192 bus stop if you chose to avoid the moving walkways.

Per google maps directions (using the walk option). It is about 950 m from curbside to the end of pier f. Add about 90 m for the walk from your stop to your check in desk (1/3 the length of the Terminal, 280 m) + escalators + an additional 175 m (1/2 the width of pier f as you arrive in the middle of the pier). Total of 1215 m

But be honest here folks, once you are in the terminal the distances are the same from check in to the gate. The difference is the distance from the upx station to you check in desk vs from your bus stop, up escalators/elevators to your check in desk.

 

[ehlow]

There are going to also be people who prefer the UPX over taking the bus, even if the bus is usually faster.
Yes, not everyone.
But there will be some people who will take UPX even if total trip takes 10 minutes longer.

• More fun and relaxing, more legroom, bigger seats, better scenery, better climate control.
• Seat more guaranteed. No midsummer standing on the 192 rocket with other sweat-drenched bag luggers.
• Free WiFi. (good opportunity for online airline check-in)
• Airport departure boards on the train.
• Room temperature all 365 days at platform edge at Union & Pearson! No freezing or sweating with your bag!
• Ride is more comfortable and smooth, especially for people who get nauseous with bus/taxi movements.
• No cramped, smelly, sometimes rude, tight-legroom, herky-jerky stop-and-go taxis or discount limos.
• No worry about later traffic, like an upcoming slower-than-usual 401. Luck of the draw.
• Premium transit also tend to stay sparkly clean and better-smelling.
• Shorter walk to most checkin booths than any other public transit option (even with LINK people mover).
• Consistency. 20-minute bus rides can become a 40-minute bus ride with construction or accidents.
• Sudden peace of mind the very moment you step into UPX at last-minute, "wow, my calm is worth the train fare"
• Full of energy, not tired, not sweating, not freezing, no stairs, no last-minute panic even 1h15min before flight.
• UPX becomes part of the vacation.

Yeah, yea, I know it sounds like an advertorial -- but this is true of world city $15-$45 airport trains (Tokyo, London, Hong Kong). This is why some people are slowly warming up to UPX. By the time it's operating for a year, and when Metrolinx announces it has better farebox recovery than TTC/GO (aka better than the population expects it), positive public opinion will probably go up to 60-70% rather than 45%-ish. Sure, some early and late trains will be empty-ish, but Metrolinx will have lots of photos of packed 3-car trains during peak moments when an A380 arrives at the same time as a 747. Many surge moments at airports. Dumbfounded critics wonder what the hoopla is, rides it, and loves it.

Not everyone will like UPX, but you can rest assured that *some* riders taking UPX are taking it anyway even if other means will be a little bit faster. I say this even though I have mixed feelings about how expensive the UPX capital costs were, and how it will eat up Georgetown Corridor capacity (for now). Even if UPX went a few minutes slower than the 192 Rocket, I still prefer UPX if I can easily get to Union at a predictable time (e.g. Yonge-Eglinton, and that I checked there's no TTC delay).

Approval rating will slowly go up, just like it did for Tokyo/London/HongKong $15-$45 premium airport trains after they have been actually operating for a while. Yes, the capital cost was stupendously (or stupidly) expensive, but it's here to stay probably for our current lifetime... An awful long time for every single naysayer to totally avoid riding UPX -- at least a few of those are going to go "what the heck, why not".

Yup, exactly. It's not just about pure speed, also comfort and reliability.

 

[robmausser]

this is a real issue in this city (not picking on you here)......when I talk to people about getting to the airport you get the impression that people (in general) think there is no way to get to the airport other than drive or cab.

For a city with no (current) rail link to the airport we actually have a very interesting group of public transit options. None ideal but there is a range of prices and times and services....so the immediate reaction (fueled IMO by bad media about "$30 fares) to the UPe was understandable when thought of as the only transit option....but it is not.

As I have said before, the big missing one to me is some sort of connector from Malton GO to Pearson but there are TTC/MiWay/GO/Brampton Transit buses services right to the terminal doors and, yes, they take longer than a direct rail link.....but they also cost a lot less and serve different points in the region.

The only reason I learned about the GO bus is because Google Maps recommended it. However I didnt realize it was a GO bus and just went when I felt like it was time and was all confused at York Mills. A TTC employee helped me out, but by the time another GO bus arrived I was late for my flight! Whoops!

So even on the Google Maps app its not clear that its GO.

 

[christiesplits]

More fun and relaxing, more legroom, bigger seats, better scenery, better climate control.

I agree with many of your points. However, as someone who has taken the Kitchener train a number of times, I can say from experience that the Bloor-Weston-Etobicoke North corridor is the armpit of Toronto. It's a shame that will be traveler's first impression of the city.

 

[salsa]

As someone who has taken the Kitchener train a number of times, I can say from experience that the Bloor-Weston-Etobicoke North corridor is the armpit of Toronto. It's a shame that will be traveler's first impression of the city.

Totally agree, although I haven't seen any city where the airport area wasn't an ugly industrial park.

 

[nfitz]

In that Forum poll cited up thread, 18 percent of people in North York say they are "very likely" to take UPE to the airport. I guess they even moreso than ehlow will learn it is not for them.

Or, like me, they work downtown, and have to pop over to the airport occasionally to pick someone up, or even travel directly from the office.

Heck, I'm pondering to use it for business travel to Mississauga and points west. If there's a good transit connection from somewhere to Pearson, and it's only 25 minutes from downtown to Pearson, it may be quicker to do that, than drive!

It's *IN* the Skywalk, but closer to York than Simcoe.

Looking at the construction site in Google Maps, it looks closer to Simcoe than York. Almost a half-kilometre to Union subway station.

It's certainly a lot longer than the walk from Kipling subway station to the 192 Airport Rocket. Or even from the Kipling GO station to the 192 Airport Rocket (which might be a cheaper, and not much slower, alternative for those starting at Union. It's worked well for me when I've had to be at the airport around 5 pm.

 

[mdrejhon]

I agree with many of your points. However, as someone who has taken the Kitchener train a number of times, I can say from experience that the Bloor-Weston-Etobicoke North corridor is the armpit of Toronto. It's a shame that will be traveler's first impression of the city.

Hmmmm. True..... Depends on the perspective, the section, and your predisposition to trains or automobiles in your originating country. A lot of old surface rail through industrial London has (had?) far more Grafitti, for example. A ride on the massive 401 can be uglier to many than even an industrial rail corridor not even as ugly as some international cities' own. Parts of the Georgetown corridor has some visual improvement caused by new noisewalls, though many parts are ugly.

Granted, seeing Toronto from the DVP is really pretty and nice on an uncrowded Sunday drive, even at night, seeing the illuminated CN tower under the Prince Edward Viaduct at night as you approach downtown on rolling curves and slopes. Especially from the front seat.

The view from the UPX high viaduct spur should be the most dazzling way to EXIT the airport, by far, compared to the arrivals road cave underneath the departures deck at least. Sensation of flying, like SkyTrain in Vancouver.

 

[ehlow]

The view of the skyline from the west on the Gardiner is nice, but shouldn't the train have a similar view since it's right beside the Gardiner? I guess you can't see forward though.

Overall though, I'd rather give visitors the impression being on a fast comfortable train (even at $20) than being on a traffic clogged highway. I don't drive on highways regularly during rush hour, but the few times I have, I couldn't believe how insanely slow traffic moved, every single highway completely slowed to a crawl going Mississauga to downtown (401, 427, Gardiner).

 

[mdrejhon]

The view of the skyline from the west on the Gardiner is nice, but shouldn't the train have a similar view since it's right beside the Gardiner? I guess you can't see forward though.

I was referring to the Don Valley Parkway, not the Gardiner. Two totally different beasts. The view from the Don Valley Parkway is prettier than it will be from both Gardiner and UPX (except Gardiner's "entering downtown at night on uncrowded late-evening drive" experience, with all the colorfully lighted new condos, SkyDome and CN tower)

But yes, the overall experience (terminal-exit "flying" viaduct experience to downtown-entering experience) can actually be pretty good from the UPX. I (and probably many Europeans) prefer the zooming scenery of old suburban industry than the crawling scenery of rush-hour 16-lane 401, as the lesser evil of 'interesting visual scenery'

That said, beautified endpoints (terminal exit and downtown entering) is the most important part of the arrival experience for tourists, and UPX will be pretty good in both respects, especially after the Union Revitalization. (Except maybe for those people sitting on the left passenger side of UPX in the last minutes and seconds before entering the station -- they'll be staring at sides of buildings instead of an impressively bustling rail corridor).

Huge tip to incoming tourists or returning residents -- When leaving the airport, find a window seat on the right-hand side (respective to train direction). Better entry at Union. You'll see better glimpses of the lake too at various points of the route. And it also happens to be the side where you will first see the CN tower from the raised viaduct exiting the terminal. Likewise, when heading towards to the airport from Union, sit on the left-hand side (respective to train direction).