Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

jozl said:
Am I missing something? I seem to be the only one on this forum who thinks the announced fares are outrageously expensive. $27.50 is ridiculous. The $19 fare for Presto users is somewhat better but you need to have a Presto card (whatever that is). There are 2.8 million people in Toronto that are TTC users and the TTC doesn't offer Presto. So… a trip for 2 to Pearson from Union Station is $55 PLUS the cost of getting to Union Station (conservatively $6 for TTC much more by taxi) for a total of $61. REALLY?? I can get a Limo to pick me up at home, even give me a wake up call, and deliver me to Pearson for $55 and a lot less hassle. Why would I use the train? I used to travel to NYC fairly regularly for business. The train from Newark to Penn Station is only about $12.50 and it's further than Union is from Pearson. Are the people who priced this out of their minds???
Check the comments on the this Globe and Mail article. Looks like most people agree with me. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...-union-pearson-express-train/article22020657/
The way I see it the province does what they do best… protect monopolies. They didn't want to undercut the Limo and Taxi monopolies. Sort of like protecting the Beer monopoly, the LCBO, the dairy marketing board and the egg marketing board. While most people are struggling to compete with the global marketplace the Ontario government protects those that can lobby hard and make big donations to political parties. Once in a while a bone is thrown to the rest of us. But I digress. I THINK $27.50 IS OUTRAGEOUS. I WILL NEVER USE THIS TRAIN AT THAT PRICE.
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So don't use it :)

To the people saying "I could never use this because I'm travelling with more than one person" or "I can't use this because the stations are too far from my home":

There are actually many people (not you, but other people) who do travel alone and who do live or work near Union or Dundas West & Bloor where this would be convenient for them. It will be <1/2 the price of taking a cab (often $50-60), and likely faster when traffic is bad.

Secondly, the money spent on the Georgetown corridor also lays the foundation of increased GO service including GO RER and/or SmartTrack in the future.

I was hoping for $15 from union, but $19 is not bad to me. For those who live near Bloor West, it seems very convenient for $15.

If it's not right for you, OK, take the cab, but it other people will find it cheaper & faster for them if they live near the stations.

This service will be even more useful when the Eglinton LRT is done and they add a UPX stop at Eglinton & Weston, so that people in midtown can take the Eglinton Crosstown to the western end, then transfer to UPX (for probably $12-15 dollars).
 
jozl said:
Am I missing something? I seem to be the only one on this forum who thinks the announced fares are outrageously expensive. $27.50 is ridiculous. The $19 fare for Presto users is somewhat better but you need to have a Presto card (whatever that is).
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IMO.....that bolded part just shows a lack of knowledge/interest in the GTA transit scene and, perhaps, using those words should disqualify anyone from commenting on transit matters.....

There are 2.8 million people in Toronto that are TTC users and the TTC doesn't offer Presto.
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Presto has been accepted for years for TTC fares....albeit at a limited number of stations but once you are in/on the system you can use the entire system....so TTC does offer/accept/use Presto

So… a trip for 2 to Pearson from Union Station is $55 PLUS the cost of getting to Union Station (conservatively $6 for TTC much more by taxi) for a total of $61.
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Only if you choose to have the return trip cost you that much will it cost you that much. If, as you said, you don't know what Presto is and if, as you said, you didn't think that TTC used/accepted Presto but you were about to take a trip which would be $17 per couple cheaper if you invested $12 in obtaining a Presto Card you would surely be able to see that the total cost of the Presto Cards was recovered (plus $5) on the way to the airport and upon your return trip you will add another $17 savings and in one trip to and from your home and Pearson you would be $22 ahead by obtaining the Presto Card before your trip.

There has been a fair amount of "complaining" about the $27.50 fare today ( little bit here, a lot on social media) and, to me, it is exactly the same as the people in Brampton who complain about the $3.75 cash fare on BT.....each and everyone of them could be paying $2.80 if they used Presto (as a lot of BT users do)......so by not getting Presto they are volunteering to pay $3.75 and have no business complaining about that fare.......so it is with UPe, anyone who resides in the GTA and pays $27.50 rather than $19 has done so on a voluntary basis.
 
nfitz, Really? So, "as the crow flies" the Newark line is 4km shorter than Union/Pearson. I stand corrected. The last time I travelled "as the crow flies" I was high, and not on a train. Fact is NYC is one of the world's most travelled destinations. No comparison to Toronto really. $27.50 vs $14.35 (current exchange rate from $12.50 US). I think those numbers say it all. This is unacceptable. Toronto already has a reputation as an expensive city, guess what, it just got more expensive. Good luck Tourism Toronto. You have some work to do.
There are more comments from the great "unenlightened" masses in the Toronto Star http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014/12/10/unionpearson_rail_fares_to_be_27_oneway.html
 
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jozl said:
nfitz, Really? So, "as the crow flies" the Newark line is 4km shorter than Union/Pearson. I stand corrected. The last time I travelled "as the crow flies" I was high, and not on a train.
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Neither train takes a straight line. It was the quickest measurement to make. Fare zones tend to be based on direct distance, not route taken.

Bottom line is the Newark versus Toronto fares are quite similar. So quite acceptance of the one, and over-the-top-hysterics for the other makes little sense.

jozl said:
Fact is NYC is one of the world's most travelled destinations. No comparison to Toronto really.
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Uh, what? You compared the fare for the train to Newark International. Toronto Pearson had about 36 million passengers in 2013. Newark, NJ, had 35 million. How is this no comparison to Toronto?

Why don't you instead use the cost for direct-train services from La Guardia and JFK to Manhattan?

jozl said:
$27.50 vs $14.35 (current exchange rate from $12.50 US). I think those numbers say it all. This is unacceptable. Toronto already has a reputation as an expensive city, guess what, it just got more expensive. Good luck Tourism Toronto. You have some work to do.
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A) Why would any Torontonian pay $27.50 when they could pay $19? I suppose there's a sucker born every minute ... but I don't think they have a right to complain, if they choose to pay a higher fare.

B) You really think that the extra few $ to a tourist to go to downtown Toronto is going to have any impact on tourism, when compared to other items such as hotel rates, air fares, etc. Where was your outage when the well-used airport bus cost $28?
 
jozl said:
nfitz, Really? So, "as the crow flies" the Newark line is 4km shorter than Union/Pearson. I stand corrected. The last time I travelled "as the crow flies" I was high, and not on a train. Fact is NYC is one of the world's most travelled destinations. No comparison to Toronto really. $27.50 vs $14.35 (current exchange rate from $12.50 US). I think those numbers say it all. This is unacceptable. Toronto already has a reputation as an expensive city, guess what, it just got more expensive. Good luck Tourism Toronto. You have some work to do.
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Tell me why would any torontonians choose to pay $27.5 when $19 is an option? Leonardo express runs 37 km and charges $20 (14.euros), Paris - Cdg fare is $15 or 10 euro (not non stop). Heathrow express is a whopping 21 pounds or $38 one way.

27.5 would be excessive but 19 is acceptable though not cheap.
 
Markster said:
People haven't noticed this little tidbit in one of their documents:

So yes, they are looking at co-fares. I suspect they would be Presto-only.
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Hmm, very interesting! I admit I didn't dive too deeply into the documents, I just saw the announcement.

And TOareaFan, yes I realize that adding the $2.75 TTC fare (assuming you can tap onto the TTC using Presto) isn't a big deal. But for me, if I was going to Pearson I'd be coming from Burlington. $9 something for GO into Union plus $19 to get to Pearson is a pretty hefty fare. It would be really nice if some of that GO fare, or some of that UPX fare, was deducted when tapped in the same general time period.

Hopefully the fare integration comes about sooner rather than later. Because it's one line as opposed to an entire system, I would hope that fare integration between the TTC + UPX or GO + UPX could be done relatively quickly.
 
gweed123 said:
Hmm, very interesting! I admit I didn't dive too deeply into the documents, I just saw the announcement.

And TOareaFan, yes I realize that adding the $2.75 TTC fare (assuming you can tap onto the TTC using Presto) isn't a big deal. But for me, if I was going to Pearson I'd be coming from Burlington. $9 something for GO into Union plus $19 to get to Pearson is a pretty hefty fare. It would be really nice if some of that GO fare, or some of that UPX fare, was deducted when tapped in the same general time period.

Hopefully the fare integration comes about sooner rather than later. Because it's one line as opposed to an entire system, I would hope that fare integration between the TTC + UPX or GO + UPX could be done relatively quickly.
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Would this even be a time/cost effective method to get from Burlington to Pearson though?
 
nfitz
Uh, what? You compared the fare for the train to Newark International. Toronto Pearson had about 36 million passengers in 2013. Newark, NJ, had 35 million. How is this no comparison to Toronto?

Why don't you instead use the cost for direct-train services from La Guardia and JFK to Manhattan?
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There are 3 airports that service NYC, not just Newark, so… I assume A LOT MORE people travel to NYC than do to Toronto. I don't want to get into a tap dance with you about this. I think it's far too expensive and you don't. Let's see how it goes from here. Maybe it will be a big success maybe it will flop. Time will tell.
 
Admiral Beez said:
Nearly two hours net pay to get to work.
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Though given that the report indicates that about 3% of airport workers (which would be over 1,000 people) were using the Pacific Western airport bus, then it's of some value to some. Perhaps these are workers not being paid minimum wage? Probably still cheaper than owning a car.
 
Admiral Beez said:
Nearly two hours net pay to get to work.
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Since minimum wage is $11 that seems to be less than 1 hour of gross wages....so you are assuming, I guess, that somone earning minimum wage in Ontario pays 50% of their income in taxes?

A 40 hour work week and 50 week work year at $11 translates to $22k per year......based on the 2014 tax rates (and assuming no other deductions) someone earning $22k in Ontario would have a combined provincial and federal tax owing of about 2,200....so about 10%.......10% of $11 is $1.10.....so net hourly is $9.90.....so it would be more accurate to say that slightly above 1 hour of pay to get to work (for the lowest possible pay scaled worker)
 
BlogTo screwed up on that comment and I'm amazed they haven't fixed it. TTC has been saying for a while that rollout should be complete sometime in 2017. Tory is also pushing to get it brought forward. They plan to install it on older streetcars, which BlogTO doesn't seem to understand.
 
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