Toronto Union Park | 303.26m | 58s | Oxford Properties | Pelli Clarke Pelli

I can't believe that council would vote this down. How unbelievably parochial! If so, I hope Mississauga gets it and builds it right on the freakin' border of Toronto. Ha!
 
I personally do not see the reason why a city like Toronto cannot build this without complicating the matter with Casino. I think there should be two different debates about this. Do we want Casinos in our downtown core? If so then what are the pros and cons? If we agree not to have casino then can the city help their image by contributing to such beautification of the core? Will the absence of the casino component prevent such Renderings from becoming reality? May be we should focus on how Cadillac Fairview or anyone trying to develop something amazing like this to just do it without entangling themselves with hot-button issues that could kill the project. We don't necessary need a casino in order to have landmark developments .....
 
Tewder said:
I can't believe that council would vote this down. How unbelievably parochial! If so, I hope Mississauga gets it and builds it right on the freakin' border of Toronto. Ha!
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I dunno. I find the scenario entirely credible myself. Nor is there anything parochial about it. After all the press that's been boiling up on the issue, those who oppose a casino fully realize that the OLG has momentum and is going to put one in regardless - somewhere in the GTA. So they're not going to flip out in dismay should one be built in Mississauga... not the majority, anyway. Their whole point has been to fight a casino from coming to downtown Toronto. If they can get that, they'll be satisfied. I think only a slim but shrill minority are against casinos, period; most simply don't like the idea of one in the core. No, I don't have any numbers. It's just my sense of what's happening. I don't have a horse in either race, really. I'd prefer the casino go elsewhere but I'm not foaming at the mouth. I think the convention centre expansion is coming regardless and I expect some new tall towers to grace the city's skyline.

Whether we see the pro side win the day for the convention centre or the exhibition grounds, we will continue to see bold new developments in the core. Toronto is not done building.
 
Tewder:

Doubtful - there is no groundswell of support in Mississauga to host the casino, and they haven't even talked about the site yet - if they put it right by the border, expect powerplant styled pushback.

AoD
 
AoD, Lenser...

The anti-casino stance is absurd. Moving a casino to a neighbouring area solves absolutely nothing, and the only thing it does is make a lot of deluded people feel that they've achieved something noble, all the while killing a massive urban development project that would revitalize an area, create jobs and add a significant potential revenue stream. Yay!

For those who are truly and sincerely concerned with the ills of gambling in society there are more effective steps to take: lobby for casino privatization and demand for increased government policing of gambling, along with programs for education and support.
 
Tewder:

I am fairly neutral (lean towards pro, mildly) about this whole debate so I am not sure what your rebuttal to me was about. I am merely suggesting that you might be overstating the desire of surrounding municipalities to host the casino.

AoD
 
Tewder said:
For those who are truly and sincerely concerned with the ills of gambling in society there are more effective steps to take: lobby for casino privatization and demand for increased government policing of gambling, along with programs for education and support.
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So ask for a milloin and one things? Right, effective...
 
Tewder said:
AoD, Lenser...

The anti-casino stance is absurd. Moving a casino to a neighbouring area solves absolutely nothing, and the only thing it does is make a lot of deluded people feel that they've achieved something noble, all the while killing a massive urban development project that would revitalize an area, create jobs and add a significant potential revenue stream. Yay!

For those who are truly and sincerely concerned with the ills of gambling in society there are more effective steps to take: lobby for casino privatization and demand for increased government policing of gambling, along with programs for education and support.
Click to expand...

It's quite a bit more absurd to talk about needing a casino to revitalise an area that is already undergoing a radical revitalisation without one.

Putting a casino where MTCC currently sits solves absolutely nothing, and the only thing it does is make a lot of deluded people think they are doing something progressive, when in reality they are just giving the finger to city-building and falling for corporate lobbying of the worst kind.

When the only 'experts' arguing for this thing are those who are employed by the developers or casino companies, you know that any benefits wouldn't be worth the hassle.
 
RC8 said:
It's quite a bit more absurd to talk about needing a casino to revitalise an area that is already undergoing a radical revitalisation without one.

Putting a casino where MTCC currently sits solves absolutely nothing, and the only thing it does is make a lot of deluded people think they are doing something progressive, when in reality they are just giving the finger to city-building and falling for corporate lobbying of the worst kind.

When the only 'experts' arguing for this thing are those who are employed by the developers or casino companies, you know that any benefits wouldn't be worth the hassle.
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There are plenty of people who are pro-casino, who are in no way employed by developers or casino companies...

Your first point misses the mark, in that while the casino is not specifically needed for the revitalization of the convention centre, it would in fact help to maximize that revitalization...

Your second point also misses the mark in that utilizing a downtown location for an increase in convention business is hardly 'giving the finger' to city building, but is in fact enhancing Toronto's attractiveness to the world's convention and tourism industry..not every street in the city is destined to be quiet residential with a complimentary podium of retail....

I haven't seen or heard a single anti-casino argument which isn't spurious and filled with lies and half-truths...

And no, I don't gamble, I don't even like casinos, but I can definitely see a big win for the city in the global context if we ever got one downtown...
 
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The 250 faith leaders who came out against the casino were spurious and filled with lies and half-truths? And how exactly does a casino, which pulls in most of its income from those with low income and gambling problems, "maximize that revitalization"?
 
Tewder said:
AoD, Lenser...

The anti-casino stance is absurd. Moving a casino to a neighbouring area solves absolutely nothing, and the only thing it does is make a lot of deluded people feel that they've achieved something noble, all the while killing a massive urban development project that would revitalize an area, create jobs and add a significant potential revenue stream. Yay!

For those who are truly and sincerely concerned with the ills of gambling in society there are more effective steps to take: lobby for casino privatization and demand for increased government policing of gambling, along with programs for education and support.
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Tewder: honestly. I think you're the one who's going over the top. I thought my posts on the subject were quite mild and I certainly wasn't being self-righteous about my stance toward the casino. I get the fact that you're angry about so-called Toronto parochialism, but I resent being painted with that brush.

Again, killing the casino should not be equated with the death knell of future fabulous developments for this city - supertall or not. Pretending otherwise seems to be the real absurdity.
 
All I want are those Foster buildings and the park over the railway tracks. I say do whatever it takes to make them happen.
 
RC8 said:
It's quite a bit more absurd to talk about needing a casino to revitalise an area that is already undergoing a radical revitalisation without one.
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Strawman. It's not about needing a casino for revitalization. It's that this happens to be the real proposal on the table, one that brings with it lots and lots of benefits... and passing up on it doesn't mean, 'whew, thank god we've sidestepped the dangers of gambling here'. The Investment, the People with or without gambling problems (and their money) will just go to Mississauga or wherever. Absurd!

RC8 said:
Putting a casino where MTCC currently sits solves absolutely nothing, and the only thing it does is make a lot of deluded people think they are doing something progressive, when in reality they are just giving the finger to city-building and falling for corporate lobbying of the worst kind.
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I see what you did there. Yes, a massive development that adds tourist infrastructure, towers, parks, retail, revenue streams to the city, and the leveraging of contributions towards infrastructure including transit is so regressive. Somebody call Monaco quick and inform them!

RC8 said:
When the only 'experts' arguing for this thing are those who are employed by the developers or casino companies, you know that any benefits wouldn't be worth the hassle.
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... and a conspiracy theory to end with. Why deal with facts when you can spread fantasy and conjecture?
 
Lenser said:
Tewder: honestly. I think you're the one who's going over the top. I thought my posts on the subject were quite mild and I certainly wasn't being self-righteous about my stance toward the casino. I get the fact that you're angry about so-called Toronto parochialism, but I resent being painted with that brush.

Again, killing the casino should not be equated with the death knell of future fabulous developments for this city - supertall or not. Pretending otherwise seems to be the real absurdity.
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Lenser, AoD... my incredulity wasn't and isn't in any way directed at either of you. Sorry if it came off that way. I'm taking aim at those who posture that turning down this opportunity is the socially responsible thing to do.
 
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