Toronto Toronto Island Park Master Plan | ?m | ?s | City of Toronto

[EastYorkTTCFan]

At no point did I make any statements about Toronto as a whole being world-class or not. In this conversation I simply care about the Toronto Islands.

Specifically, I think that the city council does not make the most of its park space (of which the Toronto Islands is part) or of its public realm. It is my opinion that this is because city council does not have the vision, is too incrementalist, and is unwilling to spend money to really make the most of the city's assets. This disappoints me, because Toronto has assets like the islands, the lake shore, the ravines etc. that are pretty damn amazing.

You have a problem with my use of the term 'world-class' to reference other parks, and I understand that. I used it as a shortcut: if I compare the islands to Central Park, Prospect Park, Brooklyn Bridge Park, Governor's Island (all places I have spent a lot of time in) I find it coming up short. Specifically, the islands lack cohesion, I feel like there aren't really have any 'wow' moments, the trails feel linear (so it feels like there's only one way to explore it), etc. I also don't believe that Centreville is the best use of the space, and would rather it be naturalized. That said, note that these are my opinions. Plenty of people - including you - in this thread have spoken in favour of Centreville.

I think you are being highly contradictory in what you are saying and drawing on conclusions based on what you want to happen. You seem to think that there is a lack of vision just because it isn't like central park in new York or and any of the other cities you listed.

The only problem I have with the islands us that too much of it is just open land with nothing but a path leading from one section to another.

What it needs is more things like restaurants or add more places for people to ride bikes and stuff like that and maybe even some sort of transportation around all of them year round.

 

[allengeorge]

I think you are being highly contradictory in what you are saying and drawing on conclusions based on what you want to happen. You seem to think that there is a lack of vision just because it isn't like central park in new York or and any of the other cities you listed.

First off, my statement of 'vision' was around city council and its approach to Toronto's public realm as a whole. Quoting myself: "Specifically, I think that the city council does not make the most of its park space (of which the Toronto Islands is part) or of its public realm. It is my opinion that this is because city council does not have the vision..."

Now, when it comes to the Toronto Islands, I've stated why I think the parks I listed are better, and repeating: I think it comes down to cohesion, 'wow' moments, and ample opportunities for exploration. Every one of those parks has a large variety of uses: ball fields, open areas, zoos, museums, open land, trails, etc. But the way it's all tied together, how non-linear the trails are, and the sense of 'play' in the landscaping is what sets them apart. I really do think that the people who created those parks understood how to landscape and make the most of their situation.

For example, imagine you had a trail that went through a forested area; you feel enclosed and then suddenly you hit the water's edge and you see Lake Ontario stretching off into the distance - that's a 'wow' moment; such a contrast from where you were before. Instead, today you walk across an small amusement park, some fairly wide open spaces, a fountain and then...you're at the southern edge of the island. It just feels different.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

First off, my statement of 'vision' was around city council and its approach to Toronto's public realm as a whole. Quoting myself: "Specifically, I think that the city council does not make the most of its park space (of which the Toronto Islands is part) or of its public realm. It is my opinion that this is because city council does not have the vision..."

Now, when it comes to the Toronto Islands, I've stated why I think the parks I listed are better, and repeating: I think it comes down to cohesion, 'wow' moments, and ample opportunities for exploration. Every one of those parks has a large variety of uses: ball fields, open areas, zoos, museums, open land, trails, etc. But the way it's all tied together, how non-linear the trails are, and the sense of 'play' in the landscaping is what sets them apart. I really do think that the people who created those parks understood how to landscape and make the most of their situation.

For example, imagine you had a trail that went through a forested area; you feel enclosed and then suddenly you hit the water's edge and you see Lake Ontario stretching off into the distance - that's a 'wow' moment; such a contrast from where you were before. Instead, today you walk across an small amusement park, some fairly wide open spaces, a fountain and then...you're at the southern edge of the island. It just feels different.

You're not selling me on your vision. I think the biggest problem with people on this forum is when they visit another city they see what they have and think that because Toronto doesn't have it or do the same thing they lack vision. Many people like Toronto the way it is where as other people seem to not be happy unless they have something to complain about.

Also in Toronto we have a large park with trails and paths and tress it's called high park plus we also have the valley and many other parks in the city.

 

[44 North]

The virtue of the tram, to me, is exactly what you suggest. A bus or even those slinky tractor pulled rides feels more urban, and more modern. Think of a tram as a reincarnation of an old Toronto radial. Each stop would effectively be a different “community” along the way. No Flexities allowed, just open air.

I wonder if the City could declare the Island a petro-free zone with all work vehicles being fully electric, in the interest of both carbon footprint and quiet.

One of the issues with the Island is that it’s too far from end to end to be walkable for the less than fully able. Having end to end transportation is important. Demographics being what they are, there will be lots of aging folks in those central condos, and the island would be a prime recreational destination as that age group gives up their cars.

- Paul

Having a touristy mini train go end-to-end like you allude to would be really great. Not like an actual "LRT" (somehow costing $2bn), but slightly more transportation-focused than what exists at Centeville. Could be used year round, even if being open unheated vehicles. Unless AODA doesn't allow such a thing?

 

[W. K. Lis]

Because of COVID-19, tours of the Island Water Filtration Plant is out. However, did they ever put up signs at the ferry docks that tours of the water plant could be done?

 

[DKsan]

The big mistake Toronto did in the 1950's was to destroy the buildings on Centre Island. Hotels, restaurants, and shops disappeared.

They could have created Toronto's own version of Disneyland's Main Street on the Island. But with real non-chain, non-franchisee, independently owned stores, offices, and second or third floor residences.

I think not keeping the Islands as Toronto's version of Brighton and its piers is a mistake, considering we all (well not me since I now have access to actual Brighton) flock to the islands for the beaches and it really needs the amenities to support that.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I think not keeping the Islands as Toronto's version of Brighton and its piers is a mistake, considering we all (well not me since I now have access to actual Brighton) flock to the islands for the beaches and it really needs the amenities to support that.

We should be creating Toronto's version of "Wasaga Beach" on the islands. Wasaga is not only the provincial park, but the beach and the town, with the amenities to support it. The only problem with Wasaga Beach is the lack of provincial camp grounds, though there would be private camp grounds.

 

[lenaitch]

Creating and maintaining artificial - not naturally occurring - broad expanses of sand beach in the presence of wind, currents, wave action, etc. is more challenging than many people think.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I'm sorry, but Centreville need to go. It's dumpy, old, rickety and is occupying the most prime real estate on these islands. If you want to replace it with a more grand and spectacular park, I'm all for it, but Centreville in its current form needs to go. There is nothing salvageable or special about it. I have little reservation about tearing it down and starting fresh (whether the new plans include a theme park or not).

Now I'd suggest that any new theme park on the islands must also incorporate winter programming and activities. It is cold six months out of the year in the City. Having this area being utilized only half of the year isn't acceptable. In fact, this should be a guiding principal for the design of the broader islands as well.

 

[Northern Light]

......, I'm all for it, but Centreville in its current form needs to go. There is nothing salvageable.....

I dunno, the 110 year old carousel has some appeal.

Now I'd suggest that any new theme park on the islands must also incorporate winter programming and activities. It is cold six months out of the year in the City. Having this area being utilized only half of the year isn't acceptable. In fact, this should be a guiding principal for the design of the broader islands as well.

Two thoughts:

As part of a broader naturalization initiative, a summer hiking trail could be established; that same trail could be a cross-country ski trail in the winter.

Second, I could see a large scale leisure skating trail in winter, which could be a splash pad or lazy river feature in the summer, and floodlit for night use.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I dunno, the 110 year old carousel has some appeal

Okay, we can salvage that

Two thoughts:

As part of a broader naturalization initiative, a summer hiking trail could be established; that same trail could be a cross-country ski trail in the winter.

Second, I could see a large scale leisure skating trail in winter, which could be a splash pad or lazy river feature in the summer, and floodlit for night use.

Love this idea. Very similar to what's been done with the Gardiner, under the Bentway, just far better executed.

I'd also consider installing indoor and heated vendors along the ski trail. Convincing people to utilize the islands in the dead of winter, with nowhere to stay warm, will be challenging otherwise. This would also encourage people to linger on the islands in the summer months.

 

[W. K. Lis]

How about a year-round water park? With 30°C heated water? That alone would be a good reason to take the ferry over to the Toronto Islands in winter.



Caribbean Bay in South Korea, is the world's largest water park with both indoor and outdoor attractions. And in winter...

From link. Official website in Korean at this link.

Winter water slides, warm river pools, and outdoor spas are all waiting for guests that looking to enjoy a more leisurely afternoon at the water park. Although the mercury outside may be dropping, the pools at Caribbean Bay maintain temperatures above 30°C so that guests never have to worry about feeling too chilly.

For those looking to dodge the cold altogether, the Aquatic Center has a variety of thrilling facilities to enjoy. At the indoor wave pool, you can relax in the waves or try your hand at surfing on artificial waves. For the more adventurous types, the indoor center also features four different water slide courses to enjoy bare-bellied or while riding an inner-tube.

Along the lazy river guests will find five different spa pools that offer a hot spring experience. Temperatures range from 36°C to 40°C and each spa pool offers its own unique experience. The Bathe pool, for example, massages you with powerful currents as you relax in the outdoors and release your fatigue and stress.

 

[allengeorge]

It is cold six months out of the year in the City. Having this area being utilized only half of the year isn't acceptable. In fact, this should be a guiding principal for the design of the broader islands as well.

Having year-round usage in all areas of the island as a guiding principle makes a ton of sense.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Having year-round usage in all areas of the island as a guiding principle makes a ton of sense.

Foliage and landscaping specifically designed to decrease the permeation of wind throughout the island should be integral to making the islands comfortable for year round use.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Having year-round usage in all areas of the island as a guiding principle makes a ton of sense.

Just spitballing ideas here, but the Toronto Islands would be the perfect venue for an all season long, Christmas Market type event. Shops could be hosted within a small street grid of pedestrian-only streets. The winter ski/skate trail that @Northern Light mentioned passing thru the area would act as another attraction for the season. No doubt that this could be a huge attraction for families, and Instagrammers alike. Such an event could also potentially generate revenue for the City, to fund maintenance of other attractions on the Islands, such as the beaches (which as @lenaitch mentioned, might not be inexpensive)

There's so much potential here, if we're willing to treat the islands as an almost blank slate.