Toronto Toronto City Hall and Nathan Phillips Square | ?m | ?s | City of Toronto | Perkins&Will

[dt_toronto_geek]

what about the public space in front of Old City Hall? every year i think to myself that they are going to put a bit of effort into making it look a little nicer, to no avail. they plant 2 round flower beds and leave the rest of it looking like total crap. it's about 50% dirt. what an embarrassment

There are varying types of concrete that have been poured in sections over the years out front too, also a couple of areas with asphalt and brick tiled areas. It is a mish-mash-mess. Rethinking the sidewalks by examining the trodden pathways would be a good start to keeping the grass areas nicer. Improved plantings would make a huge difference too, I totally agree with that. The neat rows of annuals that they plant there every year are so lame.

There are a few structural problems at NPS that are really beginning to show and need to be addressed, but it obviously they will have to wait. Some little touches at NPS could really make a difference. Of course that grass off Queen Street needs to be addressed (it's always a problem year 'round), improved sitting areas and paint all those flag poles with all of the paint peeling off along Bay Street. A few things like that could help hold the Square over until the money comes through to begin the renovations.

 

[syn]

That's all understandable, but why should he give in? The price of renovating the square -- 40 million -- is trifling for a city this large. Those councillors that Mayor Miller is caving to have no pride at all.

When the city joined an environmental group last year for $140,000 (I think), people were up in arms. Miller was denegrated. Can you imagine what the backlash would be if they spent $40 million during tough economic times to make City Hall look better? As important as it may be, it will be perceived by many to be a frivolous waste.

 

[junctionist]

When the city joined an environmental group last year for $140,000 (I think), people were up in arms. Miller was denegrated. Can you imagine what the backlash would be if they spent $40 million during tough economic times to make City Hall look better? As important as it may be, it will be perceived by many to be a frivolous waste.

Groups of people always complain of investments in public buildings and public space. In good economic times, a bunch of naysayers will be up in arms about how we should spend the $40 million on social housing or police officers.

 

[syn]

Groups of people always complain of investments in public buildings and public space. In good economic times, a bunch of naysayers will be up in arms about how we should spend the $40 million on social housing or police officers.

That's true, but in tough economic times the backlash is much, much worse. It could very well be political suicide.

 

[TonyV]

When the city joined an environmental group last year for $140,000 (I think), people were up in arms. ... perceived by many to be a frivolous waste.

I know, I know, it takes balls to stand up for your city and the appearancae of its public spaces.

These people forget what their mom told them -- spend a bit of money to put your best foot forward etc. etc. -- "it's worth the expense dear, never know who you're going to bump into today". Or just maybe these naysayers didn't have the benefit of a mom who told taught them those lessons.

Makes me wonder how much per capita wealth there is in Paris or Chicago compared to Toronto .. cities where public spaces are so spiffy.

 

[fiendishlibrarian]

These people forget what their mom told them -- spend a bit of money to put your best foot forward etc. etc. -- "it's worth the expense dear, never know who you're going to bump into today". Or just maybe these naysayers didn't have the benefit of a mom who told taught them those lessons.

Just a random thought, but given the way that so much of modern fashion (especially the downtown, hipster variety) seems to be about putting your *worst* foot forward appearance-wise, I can't help but think there's a relationship between the city's unkempt look and those of many of the people in it. I don't think I've ever seen the average person dress and look as shabbily as they do now, and the connection just struck me while drinking in the Annex on Friday, surrounded by vandalized buildings, blowing trash, and street furniture wallpapered with spam. I think I was the only clean-shaven, non-pierced, non-tattooed male for blocks on end. Maybe there is something to it, maybe not. Still, every time I see the contrast in many of the old photos in Mustapha's before-and-after thread, in the back of my mind I remind myself that the old photos were taken during an era when no self-respecting male would leave his house without a shave and a suit on...

And as for comparisons with Chicago, etc., really, the bottom line is the average person in this city doesn't care, or is actually contemptuous of, high aesthetic standards. We seem determined to drag ourselves down to the lowest, basest denominator rather than make the effort either through active support or measured restraint to achieve a higher level of quality in our public sphere. We seem to be alone in major cities in the tolerance of degraded, cheapened, and abused public realms. I just wish I knew why. The only thing I can think of is that the generations that have followed the ones that actually cared about Toronto, and kept it so clean throughout the 1940s up until the early 1990s or so, hold those values in active contempt and seem determine to undermine and reverse that mentality at every turn in the name of achieving some absurd state of "urbanity" that supposedly puts us on par with New York c. 1977, which seems to hold some bizarre, nostalgic pull on everyone of a certain age that shrugs their shoulders at litter, say, or graffiti (whoops, "street art") and gazillions of ads for Booty Camp Fitness and Think in Spanish and other garbage glued up everywhere. I can't think of any other reason why this city's appearance took a sudden drop into the toilet starting around the 1990s or so, when Chicago and other cities went in the other direction, cleaned themselves up, and now take a certain pride in their appearance that we used to about 25 years ago.

 

[christiesplits]

The only thing I can think of is that the generations that have followed the ones that actually cared about Toronto, and kept it so clean throughout the 1940s up until the early 1990s or so, hold those values in active contempt and seem determine to undermine and reverse that mentality at every turn in the name of achieving some absurd state of "urbanity" that supposedly puts us on par with New York c. 1977, which seems to hold some bizarre, nostalgic pull on everyone of a certain age that shrugs their shoulders at litter, say, or graffiti (whoops, "street art") and gazillions of ads for Booty Camp Fitness and Think in Spanish and other garbage glued up everywhere. I can't think of any other reason why this city's appearance took a sudden drop into the toilet starting around the 1990s or so, when Chicago and other cities went in the other direction, cleaned themselves up, and now take a certain pride in their appearance that we used to about 25 years ago.

Brilliant analysis, fiendish. I think its a respectable debate to have, and you can certainly see division between these two camps who both want whats good for the city, yet share contrasting ideas as to how to achieve greatness. It seems like addage that Torontonians once held with such pride, such as "New York run by the Swiss," has fostered a newer generation which interpret such sparkly-clean references perjoratively. I can't tell you how many debates I've seen on UT where a user comments on the grittiness or urbanity of a Queen West landscape with its wooden, staple-ridden postered utility poles, only to be derided by a fellow user who see such poles as signs of blight and urban decay. Nonetheless, I think its a healthy debate about the direction of the city.

 

[Towered]

I think I was the only clean-shaven, non-pierced, non-tattooed male for blocks on end. Maybe there is something to it, maybe not. Still, every time I see the contrast in many of the old photos in Mustapha's before-and-after thread, in the back of my mind I remind myself that the old photos were taken during an era when no self-respecting male would leave his house without a shave and a suit on...

Quite the Ãœbermensch, aren't you?

 

[Uncle Teddy]

I can't think of any other reason why this city's appearance took a sudden drop into the toilet starting around the 1990s or so, when Chicago and other cities went in the other direction, cleaned themselves up, and now take a certain pride in their appearance that we used to about 25 years ago.

Because the province downloaded all sorts of money sucking programs on the city at the same time that then Mayor Lastman froze taxes. Something had to give.

And take a ride through the south side of Chicago and try to show me anything that bad in Toronto.

 

[fiendishlibrarian]

Quite the Ãœbermensch, aren't you?

Feh, I can remember back in the day when being an Ãœbermensch meant you had to, at a *minimum*, conquer nations and enslave entire races. These days, fulfilling the basics of proper grooming and not looking like a strung-out, derelict rock star seems to be all you need to do to attain the title. I tell ya, Ãœbermensch standards just ain't what they used to be. Pity, that.

 

[syn]

I know, I know, it takes balls to stand up for your city and the appearancae of its public spaces.

These people forget what their mom told them -- spend a bit of money to put your best foot forward etc. etc. -- "it's worth the expense dear, never know who you're going to bump into today". Or just maybe these naysayers didn't have the benefit of a mom who told taught them those lessons.

Makes me wonder how much per capita wealth there is in Paris or Chicago compared to Toronto .. cities where public spaces are so spiffy.

I don't think it's a wealth issue - it's a distribution issue. If cities were funded properly I don't think any of this would be a problem.

When a recession hit in the early 90s I noticed the public became far more concerned with the bottom line. That seemed to mark the end of Toronto as a place where investment in things like streetscapes, large scale projects, etc. was important.

A $40 million City Hall beautification project really shouldn't be a problem for a city the size of Toronto. But it is...just as it's nearly impossible to get subways built/approved, etc.

I'd love to see the city fund the project, but the political climate just isn't hospitable to it.

 

[gabe]

It's disappointing to see NPS siting empty during Luminato Lots of space for exhibits as well as a stage for events.

 

[jallan71]

National Post story: "City Hall awash in a sea of green"

There was a story in the National Post today on the new green roof going on the podium at Toronto City Hall -- see below for the text and a link to the story.

I just wish there were some pics to go with it. Does anybody have any shots of the project as it's developing?

- J.

**


City Hall awash in a sea of green

$2.3-million project reclaims public space

The sharp winds of October, with Thanksgiving behind us and Halloween coming on strong, are for most people a time to start ripping out the garden, and turning it over for winter.

Not so the City of Toronto. For the past several weeks, a crane has been busy lifting flat upon flat of plants off the titanic trailers of transport trucks parked at the back door of City Hall. Walking in that way on a regular basis, under a scaffolding erected to prevent them dropping perennials on passersby, I became amazed by the sheer quantity of plants heading to the roof. Yesterday I finally got a tour of what's going on up there.

Toronto's largest green roof is under construction, and the scale of the project takes the breath away.

We walk up the easternmost of the two ramps that slope upward on either side of the main doors to City Hall. At the top spreads a vast area of black asphalt, where workers are busy laying tubes for electric wire and pipes for irrigation. This second level, which architect Vilgo Revell intended as a public space, has been off-limits for many years. We walk toward the east tower, and suddenly a prairie meadow spreads out in front of us: Several football fields worth of grasses, flowers and herbs.

Chris Pommer, a partner at PLANT Architects, and Terry McGlade of Gardens in the Sky (now a division of Flynn Canada, the flat-roofing giant) are leading this tour, bubbling over in their excitement for their new gardening project. Mr. McGlade stops at intervals to tear off bits of herb leaves -- bergamot and campion and Russian sage -- for me to smell and taste. Even the sun makes a brief appearance.

"The grasses are going to get up to 2½ feet high, with one-foot plumes above them," enthuses Mr. McGlade, pointing to calamagrostis. Common here are sedums, an alpine plant common on green roofs. He shows me New England asters (purple flowers) and gaillardia (orange flowers). "All these plants are self-seeders. They will move and intermix into this planting."

"We were thinking about it in painterly terms," continues Mr. Pommer. "Initially this will be stripes, but as it grows it will become very kind of Fauvist," a reference to an art movement from about a century ago whose painters, including Henri Matisse, were known for their use of simplified forms and bright or violent colours.

All these plants are hardy enough to survive to -20C, he says, noting, "the Russian sage can survive Siberian temperatures."

In May, city council approved a new bylaw mandating rooftop vegetation on all new high-rise condos and offices with a floor surface greater than 2,000 square metres, mid-rise residential buildings above eight storeys, industrial plants, schools and non-profit housing. This $2.3-million green roof, which at 3,400 square metres is the largest in Toronto, is part of a $42.7-million plan to redo Nathan Phillips Square, set for completion in 2012.

New techniques make green roofs easier to install. When Chicago City Hall got a green roof five years ago, gardeners planted the roof by hand. Lifting flats of plants -- even 52,000 flats -- here is much more efficient. Each flat, which holds 20 plants, is 1-foot by 2-feet. They began life, some up to a year ago, at Hillen Nurseries Inc. near London, Ont. The same company grew the plants for a 1,000 square-metre green roof on the Eglinton West subway station, which opened in August.

That roof is off-limits to the public. This roof, in contrast, will become a new park for Toronto, with pathways, benches, tables and chairs, plus a public event space shaded by three rooftop Kentucky coffee trees. After more than a decade as an off-limits wasteland, this will be a destination.

As I stood yesterday watching workers place the plant trays, I marvelled at the vista: the sea of green, then the curved corrugated cement and marble wall of the City Hall tower, and the blue sky alongside. Participants in the CitiesAlive World Green Roof Infrastructure congress will view the green roof at its grand opening, 5 p. m. on Monday. It is not a small achievement.

pkuitenbrouwer@nationalpost.com



http://www.nationalpost.com/news/canada/toronto/story.html?id=2098371

 

[barrytron3030]

HALLELUJAH!

it will soon be time to move thread into the Projects and Construction section.

 

[gristle]

Just a random thought, but given the way that so much of modern fashion (especially the downtown, hipster variety) seems to be about putting your *worst* foot forward appearance-wise, I can't help but think there's a relationship between the city's unkempt look and those of many of the people in it. I don't think I've ever seen the average person dress and look as shabbily as they do now, and the connection just struck me while drinking in the Annex on Friday, surrounded by vandalized buildings, blowing trash, and street furniture wallpapered with spam. I think I was the only clean-shaven, non-pierced, non-tattooed male for blocks on end. Maybe there is something to it, maybe not. Still, every time I see the contrast in many of the old photos in Mustapha's before-and-after thread, in the back of my mind I remind myself that the old photos were taken during an era when no self-respecting male would leave his house without a shave and a suit on...

And as for comparisons with Chicago, etc., really, the bottom line is the average person in this city doesn't care, or is actually contemptuous of, high aesthetic standards. We seem determined to drag ourselves down to the lowest, basest denominator rather than make the effort either through active support or measured restraint to achieve a higher level of quality in our public sphere. We seem to be alone in major cities in the tolerance of degraded, cheapened, and abused public realms. I just wish I knew why. The only thing I can think of is that the generations that have followed the ones that actually cared about Toronto, and kept it so clean throughout the 1940s up until the early 1990s or so, hold those values in active contempt and seem determine to undermine and reverse that mentality at every turn in the name of achieving some absurd state of "urbanity" that supposedly puts us on par with New York c. 1977, which seems to hold some bizarre, nostalgic pull on everyone of a certain age that shrugs their shoulders at litter, say, or graffiti (whoops, "street art") and gazillions of ads for Booty Camp Fitness and Think in Spanish and other garbage glued up everywhere. I can't think of any other reason why this city's appearance took a sudden drop into the toilet starting around the 1990s or so, when Chicago and other cities went in the other direction, cleaned themselves up, and now take a certain pride in their appearance that we used to about 25 years ago.

Right on!