Toronto Time and Space Condos | 101.8m | 29s | Pemberton | Wallman Architects

I would say by the looks of this at this very moment the project will be completed for early 2021 maybe May-June
 
loudpacckk said:
why would you say 3-4 years ? Most of the ground digging looks about complete ...
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Initial appearances from evandyk's photo above may be a bit deceiving - much of what appears to be the excavated area in the southern portion of the site is actually still at street level - it is the hoarding that makes it appear to be below grade. So a lot more excavation still to be done.

By comparison, the somewhat similar Minto Westside project, which was at a further stage of excavation over three years ago, is just now being occupied, and will not be fully turned over to the new owners well into next year. The Minto site peaks out at 20 floors in its south-west corner only, with much of the building less than that. The Time and Space Condos building is 29 floors in height along Front Street. Minto is just under 1,200 units, while this one is just under 1,600 units - 30% larger. And construction timeframes have stretched out since the Minto project was started - availability of trades has tightened up substantially over the past three years. Nothing being built now is moving as quickly as had been hoped. Except maybe CIBC Square - which looks to be paying a king's ransom in overtime costs.

A lot also depends on the configuration and placement of the building's core systems as well - the elevators, the central electrical, mechanical and life safety systems. So building height and number of units would not be the only factors to be considered in comparing Time and Space to Minto Westside. Configuration differences in these areas may make Time and Space a slightly easier to build - or maybe not. Anyway, until at least the first phase of these components (if they are being done in a mutli-phase approach) are complete and certified by the City inspectors, and the initial occupancy permits are issued, no one moves in.

So - Automation Gallery and insider87 are being much more realistic, even if the low side of 3 years in the 3-4 more years estimate is, in my thought, still on the optimistic side - my suggestion would be first occupancy will not take place until well into 2023, approximately four years from now.
 
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AHK said:
Initial appearances from evandyk's photo above may be a bit deceiving - much of what appears to be the excavated area in the southern portion of the site is actually still at street level - it is the hoarding that makes it appear to be below grade. So a lot more excavation still to be done.

By comparison, the somewhat similar Minto Westside project, which was at a further stage of excavation over three years ago, is just now being occupied, and will not be fully turned over to the new owners well into next year. The Minto site peaks out at 20 floors in its south-west corner only, with much of the building less than that. The Time and Space Condos building is 29 floors in height along Front Street. Minto is just under 1,200 units, while this one is just under 1,600 units - 30% larger. And construction timeframes have stretched out since the Minto project was started - availability of trades has tightened up substantially over the past three years. Nothing being built now is moving as quickly as had been hoped. Except maybe CIBC Square - which looks to be paying a king's ransom in overtime costs.

A lot also depends on the configuration and placement of the building's core systems as well - the elevators, the central electrical, mechanical and life safety systems. So building height and number of units would not be the only factors to be considered in comparing Time and Space to Minto Westside. Configuration differences in these areas may make Time and Space a slightly easier to build - or maybe not. Anyway, until at least the first phase of these components (if they are being done in a mutli-phase approach) are complete and certified by the City inspectors, and the initial occupancy permits are issued, no one moves in.

So - Automation Gallery and insider87 are being much more realistic, even if the low side of 3 years in the 3-4 more years estimate is, in my thought, still on the optimistic side - my suggestion would be first occupancy will not take place until well into 2023, approximately four years from now.
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If you look at the most recent pics it does show that the excavation is well below ground level, also after speaking to a few developers they advised me that once the initial excavation is complete the towers will move along much after. He did say there may be very little down throughout the winter months however 1 1/2 year does seem realistic.
 
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This only has 1 level of underground I believe which will make things a bit faster - but it’s still a massive building, it’s going to take time to build. Personally I’m just excited for excavation to finish since this area always stinks of gas with them excavating the soil right now.
 
innsertnamehere said:
This only has 1 level of underground I believe which will make things a bit faster - but it’s still a massive building, it’s going to take time to build. Personally I’m just excited for excavation to finish since this area always stinks of gas with them excavating the soil right now.
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While the building permit application information indicates one level of below grade parking, I suspect that there will in total be a couple of below grade levels. In addition to the parking, the following will also need to be accommodated - either below grade, ground floor, or less likely, second floor:
  • lockers for almost 1,600 units
  • bicycle storage
  • electrical services - incoming building services, main transformer and distribution panel room, secondary distribution rooms
  • Communications room - incoming telephone, cable, internet services, power supplies and back up
  • CACF room, including building automation systems (BAS) control systems, security and access control systems (if not in the communications room)
  • garbage rooms (garbage chute terminations, compactors and garbage bin holdin - probably four (if not more) rooms for garbage handling for a building of this size
  • water services - incoming water supply / metering room, booster pumps
  • fire pumps and sprinkler control system equipment room(s)
  • main diesel generator tank room
  • rain water cistern tank area
  • elevator pits
  • sump pits, pumps, and associated controls
  • perimeter weeping tile and drainage system (goes into the sump pits)
These are the building support service components which come to mind - does not include things like storage areas for package deliveries that are not picked up quickly, miscellaneous building operation support storage, etc. So - to accommodate all these areas - either they will be below grade, or additional space will be required on the ground floor - eating into the available space for commercial uses and resident amenity areas. Even though the building occupies a very large footprint - I suspect that there may be a total of two levels below grade - one for parking, and one basically for everything else - stuff that has to be included, but does not contribute to salable / rentable above grade space.

This does not even touch on the logistics and time frames for constructing over 1,500 residential units, along with all the associated above grade and mechanical penthouse infrastructure components, and the subsequent operational testing, commissioning and associated certification of these components.

So - without looking at the detailed plans - I suspect that there may be two levels below grade, one for parking, and one for everything else. If all these uses, along with parking, are really intended to be accommodated within one floor of below grade construction, my expectation would be that, once occupied this will be found to be a really disfunctional building, with too many compromises in terms of allocations and uses of space.

And as a side note - Loudpacckk thinks that all this can be completed from where the project stands now, to the point of building occupancy, within the next eighteen months ?
 
AHK said:
While the building permit application information indicates one level of below grade parking, I suspect that there will in total be a couple of below grade levels. In addition to the parking, the following will also need to be accommodated - either below grade, ground floor, or less likely, second floor:
  • lockers for almost 1,600 units
  • bicycle storage
  • electrical services - incoming building services, main transformer and distribution panel room, secondary distribution rooms
  • Communications room - incoming telephone, cable, internet services, power supplies and back up
  • CACF room, including building automation systems (BAS) control systems, security and access control systems (if not in the communications room)
  • garbage rooms (garbage chute terminations, compactors and garbage bin holdin - probably four (if not more) rooms for garbage handling for a building of this size
  • water services - incoming water supply / metering room, booster pumps
  • fire pumps and sprinkler control system equipment room(s)
  • main diesel generator tank room
  • rain water cistern tank area
  • elevator pits
  • sump pits, pumps, and associated controls
  • perimeter weeping tile and drainage system (goes into the sump pits)
These are the building support service components which come to mind - does not include things like storage areas for package deliveries that are not picked up quickly, miscellaneous building operation support storage, etc. So - to accommodate all these areas - either they will be below grade, or additional space will be required on the ground floor - eating into the available space for commercial uses and resident amenity areas. Even though the building occupies a very large footprint - I suspect that there may be a total of two levels below grade - one for parking, and one basically for everything else - stuff that has to be included, but does not contribute to salable / rentable above grade space.

This does not even touch on the logistics and time frames for constructing over 1,500 residential units, along with all the associated above grade and mechanical penthouse infrastructure components, and the subsequent operational testing, commissioning and associated certification of these components.

So - without looking at the detailed plans - I suspect that there may be two levels below grade, one for parking, and one for everything else. If all these uses, along with parking, are really intended to be accommodated within one floor of below grade construction, my expectation would be that, once occupied this will be found to be a really disfunctional building, with too many compromises in terms of allocations and uses of space.

And as a side note - Loudpacckk thinks that all this can be completed from where the project stands now, to the point of building occupancy, within the next eighteen months ?
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Yes give or take 18-24 months. Not as long as others have mentioned such as a 2022-2023 timeline.
 
AHK said:
While the building permit application information indicates one level of below grade parking, I suspect that there will in total be a couple of below grade levels. In addition to the parking, the following will also need to be accommodated - either below grade, ground floor, or less likely, second floor:
  • lockers for almost 1,600 units
  • bicycle storage
  • electrical services - incoming building services, main transformer and distribution panel room, secondary distribution rooms
  • Communications room - incoming telephone, cable, internet services, power supplies and back up
  • CACF room, including building automation systems (BAS) control systems, security and access control systems (if not in the communications room)
  • garbage rooms (garbage chute terminations, compactors and garbage bin holdin - probably four (if not more) rooms for garbage handling for a building of this size
  • water services - incoming water supply / metering room, booster pumps
  • fire pumps and sprinkler control system equipment room(s)
  • main diesel generator tank room
  • rain water cistern tank area
  • elevator pits
  • sump pits, pumps, and associated controls
  • perimeter weeping tile and drainage system (goes into the sump pits)
These are the building support service components which come to mind - does not include things like storage areas for package deliveries that are not picked up quickly, miscellaneous building operation support storage, etc. So - to accommodate all these areas - either they will be below grade, or additional space will be required on the ground floor - eating into the available space for commercial uses and resident amenity areas. Even though the building occupies a very large footprint - I suspect that there may be a total of two levels below grade - one for parking, and one basically for everything else - stuff that has to be included, but does not contribute to salable / rentable above grade space.

This does not even touch on the logistics and time frames for constructing over 1,500 residential units, along with all the associated above grade and mechanical penthouse infrastructure components, and the subsequent operational testing, commissioning and associated certification of these components.

So - without looking at the detailed plans - I suspect that there may be two levels below grade, one for parking, and one for everything else. If all these uses, along with parking, are really intended to be accommodated within one floor of below grade construction, my expectation would be that, once occupied this will be found to be a really disfunctional building, with too many compromises in terms of allocations and uses of space.

And as a side note - Loudpacckk thinks that all this can be completed from where the project stands now, to the point of building occupancy, within the next eighteen months ?
Click to expand...
The SPA docs pretty clearly show only a single underground level, as does the physical condition of the site today. I'm well aware of a building's servicing requirements, that stuff doesn't take up nearly as much space as you are making them out to.

CACF room has to be within direct eyeline of the main residential entrance and within a certian amount of metres, btw. It's not going in the parking garage.
 
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