Toronto Time and Space Condos | 101.8m | 29s | Pemberton | Wallman Architects

DSC said:
What a weird question! I certainly think that this development could be SO much better and - with same number of units - fit into its surrounding neighbourhood rather than stick out and being 'hulking', but why wonder how the square footage would look on a totally different site? Buildings need to fit into the site they are on and the neighbourhood they are in.
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It's just a thought experiment. I often think the same thing myself: how many floors would a chonky building need if the same unit count was distributed over a point tower footprint? (10-12 units per floor vs. up to 30 for the chonkier buildings).
 
paupah said:
Damn! That puts it into perspective for sure.
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This is actually 1,582 units.

Another good comparison is One Yonge, which at 105 storeys in height, has around 950 units.

This is the largest single condo complex in the city.

Concord Canada House is also up there with almost 1,400 units, but that’s a far nicer project with much nicer units more designed for end users. Time and Space is an investors special stuffed full of tiny investor units with terrible layouts.

With units reaching occupancy here the population density of the east end is effectively skyrocketing overnight. Most other buildings in this area have like 150-250 units so this is like 6-10 nearby buildings getting completed all at once.
 
Wow 1500+ units and doesnt even offer any functional/tangible community benefit or semi-interesting/useful retail space layout from a bigger perspective. Words cant describe how this project is the epitome of everything that was wrong with the former OMB (now OLT) who helped bestowed this ridiculous load of useless nonsensical dreck here.

Ignoring (I dont know how we honestly can) how this project looks from an architectural standpoint for a moment, this is one of the worst developments ever put together in the downtown core in Toronto's history.

It's amazing how certain developments over 1000+ units got approved without offering a lick of nothing substantially beneficial to a neighborhood (realistically speaking, and yes i'm keeping Section 37 benefits in mind).
 
Amare said:
Wow 1500+ units and doesnt even offer any functional/tangible community benefit or semi-interesting/useful retail space layout from a bigger perspective. Words cant describe how this project is the epitome of everything that was wrong with the former OMB (now OLT) who helped bestowed this ridiculous load of useless nonsensical dreck here.

Ignoring (I dont know how we honestly can) how this project looks from an architectural standpoint for a moment, this is one of the worst developments ever put together in the downtown core in Toronto's history.

It's amazing how certain developments over 1000+ units got approved without offering a lick of nothing substantially beneficial to a neighborhood (realistically speaking, and yes i'm keeping Section 37 benefits in mind).
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Though I certainly do not disagree with you, one major problem with the way this 'complex' developed was that a 15- to 20 year old OMB decision allowed them 'as of right' to build right to the property lines. There is a similar old OMB settlement that affects the development of the Dominion Public Building and allows greater height or density (I forget which) than is 'normal' . These approvals should, as in UK, be time-limited because what was good planning in yyyy is not always appropriate years later.
 
Amare said:
Wow 1500+ units and doesnt even offer any functional/tangible community benefit or semi-interesting/useful retail space layout from a bigger perspective. Words cant describe how this project is the epitome of everything that was wrong with the former OMB (now OLT) who helped bestowed this ridiculous load of useless nonsensical dreck here.
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I don't know if it's still in the plans, but they were trying to source a daycare operator for the SW corner.
 
innsertnamehere said:
This is actually 1,582 units.

Another good comparison is One Yonge, which at 105 storeys in height, has around 950 units.

This is the largest single condo complex in the city.

Concord Canada House is also up there with almost 1,400 units, but that’s a far nicer project with much nicer units more designed for end users. Time and Space is an investors special stuffed full of tiny investor units with terrible layouts.

With units reaching occupancy here the population density of the east end is effectively skyrocketing overnight. Most other buildings in this area have like 150-250 units so this is like 6-10 nearby buildings getting completed all at once.
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Have you looked at the unit layouts? When I was shopping around for pre-constructs, this had some of the nicer layouts I'd seen.. no weird angles or corners. 2 bedrooms more than 700 sq feet and loads of windows and natural light. I get the criticism of massing and maybe exterior materials. But, unit size and layout and even interior finishes are above par for the price. And, I did a lot of shopping around. I am not an investor. And, yes, I will be living there and happy about the move.
 
innsertnamehere said:
This is actually 1,582 units.

Another good comparison is One Yonge, which at 105 storeys in height, has around 950 units.

This is the largest single condo complex in the city.

Concord Canada House is also up there with almost 1,400 units, but that’s a far nicer project with much nicer units more designed for end users. Time and Space is an investors special stuffed full of tiny investor units with terrible layouts.

With units reaching occupancy here the population density of the east end is effectively skyrocketing overnight. Most other buildings in this area have like 150-250 units so this is like 6-10 nearby buildings getting completed all at once.
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1531 suites
 
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GTAConstruction said:
1531 suites
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What really gets me about Time and Space is that, from my understanding, only one condominium corporation is being planned. Minto Westside has both a rental and condominium components, with two separate condominium corporations sharing the south side two 'towers' of the building. I have no idea how a single Board can manage a building of Time and Space scale, all its issues and complexities. Given the physical layout of the building, I would have thought it would be reasonable to have two (north and south portions) or even four condominium corporations, each with its own Board and sharing the various services and property manager.

If having one corporation does in fact turn out to be problematic - I have no idea how, under the terms of the Condominium Act, the building could be split up after the fact (i.e. post registration)
 
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AHK said:
What really gets me about Time and Space is that, from my understanding, only one condominium corporation is being planned. Minto Westside has both a rental and condominium components, with two separate condominium corporations sharing the south side two 'towers' of the building. I have no idea how a single Board can manage a building of Time and Space scale, all its issues and complexities. Given the physical layout of the building, I would have thought it would be reasonable to have two (north and south portions) or even four condominium corporations, each with its own Board and sharing the various services and property manager.

If having one corporation does in fact turn out to be problematic - I have no idea how, under the terms of the Condominium Act, the building could be split up after the fact (i.e. post registration)
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I agree that having one Condominium Corporation for what appear to be four separate 'components" seems unwise and I agree with you that to split it up after registration would be complex (and costly). I would talk to my lawyer and maybe even reach out to the Councillor. Councillor_Moise@toronto.ca
 
AHK said:
What really gets me about Time and Space is that, from my understanding, only one condominium corporation is being planned. Minto Westside has both a rental and condominium components, with two separate condominium corporations sharing the south side two 'towers' of the building. I have no idea how a single Board can manage a building of Time and Space scale, all its issues and complexities. Given the physical layout of the building, I would have thought it would be reasonable to have two (north and south portions) or even four condominium corporations, each with its own Board and sharing the various services and property manager.

If having one corporation does in fact turn out to be problematic - I have no idea how, under the terms of the Condominium Act, the building could be split up after the fact (i.e. post registration)
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I understand your concerns. This complex, with shared utilities and amenities across its buildings, indeed poses a unique challenge for a single board. However, introducing multiple boards could complicate the coordination of these shared services. Different boards might have conflicting approaches to managing these interconnected/shared amenities and utilities, leading to potential inconsistencies and disputes. With one board, there's a better chance of maintaining a cohesive strategy for managing the shared resources. Yes, it's a big ask for one board to handle such a complex setup, but it's likely more efficient than dealing with the complications that multiple boards could introduce. Optimizing the management strategies of this single board to handle the interconnected aspects of the complex seems like the most practical approach.
 
GTAConstruction said:
I understand your concerns. This complex, with shared utilities and amenities across its buildings, indeed poses a unique challenge for a single board. However, introducing multiple boards could complicate the coordination of these shared services. Different boards might have conflicting approaches to managing these interconnected/shared amenities and utilities, leading to potential inconsistencies and disputes. With one board, there's a better chance of maintaining a cohesive strategy for managing the shared resources. Yes, it's a big ask for one board to handle such a complex setup, but it's likely more efficient than dealing with the complications that multiple boards could introduce. Optimizing the management strategies of this single board to handle the interconnected aspects of the complex seems like the most practical approach.
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This makes some sense but I think most Condo buildings in this situation actually have separate Boards but a "Shared Facility Agreement" and a separate group (normally Directors from each Corp) to manage these.
 
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DSC said:
This makes some sense but I think most Condo buildings in this situation actually have separate Boards but a "Shared Facility Agreement" and a separate group (normally Directors from each Corp) to manage these.
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I get where you're coming from, but trust me, this is only going to make things messier and less effective. I've been on plenty of condo boards, and what really makes or breaks the management is a solid property management team, paired with a board that really gets the construction biz and can make smart choices. I've seen too many boards blow through cash with bad decisions. Also, it's super important to get the right consultant to deal with the builder. We need someone who can spot the big issues, not just churn out a laundry list of tiny defects that don't really matter.
 
GTAConstruction said:
I get where you're coming from, but trust me, this is only going to make things messier and less effective. I've been on plenty of condo boards, and what really makes or breaks the management is a solid property management team, paired with a board that really gets the construction biz and can make smart choices. I've seen too many boards blow through cash with bad decisions. Also, it's super important to get the right consultant to deal with the builder. We need someone who can spot the big issues, not just churn out a laundry list of tiny defects that don't really matter.
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The secret is certainly having good Directors and a good PM Company and Property Manger.
 
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