Toronto The United BLDG | 179.52m | 52s | Davpart | B+H

$1million for a 1 bedroom condo !! The greed of Toronto developers knows no limit. Do developers really need to make a 20% profit or more on their projects? Maybe Covid-19 will bring some humanity to developers so the average buyer can get their foot in the door.
 
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I don't understand why anyone would want to live in this area if they had that kind of money. Yes there's the AGO and the strip of restaurants and great food places along Dundas to the east of this development is legitimately great, but other than that it's really in the middle of a kinda barren zone in the city from a neighbourhood perspective — not really close to many local shops, nice place to walk, green space, etc.
 
concrete_and_light said:
I don't understand why anyone would want to live in this area if they had that kind of money. Yes there's the AGO and the strip of restaurants and great food places along Dundas to the east of this development is legitimately great, but other than that it's really in the middle of a kinda barren zone in the city from a neighbourhood perspective — not really close to many local shops, nice place to walk, green space, etc.
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It's a couple minutes walk from Queen West, from Baldwin Street, from Osgoode Hall's gardens, from Nathan Phillips Square, from the Eaton Centre, etc. It may be overpriced, but it's not in a barren zone!

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interchange42 said:
It's a couple minutes walk from Queen West, from Baldwin Street, from Osgoode Hall's gardens, from Nathan Phillips Square, from the Eaton Centre, etc. It may be overpriced, but it's not in a barren zone!

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Queen West around there is IMO not great, Osgoode Hall's gardens don't really seem like some place I would hang out even tough I'm sure they're beautiful, but perhaps a luxury condo buyer would feel differently. They just don't feel very public and relaxed to me, though maybe I'm just not very familiar and need to venture behind those fences. Eaton Centre: sure you gotta go every once and a while but I'd rather avoid it. And Nathan Phillips Square is too much of a sunswept desert or arctic tundra to me. Though Baldwin street that's a great point and I had forgot. There still though to me does seem to be an imposingness and in this sort of financial district/hospital district zone. I am near it often on the other side and I rarely want to cross it — but of course all these things are just preferences.
 
concrete_and_light said:
I don't understand why anyone would want to live in this area if they had that kind of money. Yes there's the AGO and the strip of restaurants and great food places along Dundas to the east of this development is legitimately great, but other than that it's really in the middle of a kinda barren zone in the city from a neighbourhood perspective — not really close to many local shops, nice place to walk, green space, etc.
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It's appealing to those working in government, finance, healthcare or education, all located nearby.
 
A zoom-in:


Toronto Model 03-18-20 United Building.png
 
condovo said:
It's appealing to those working in government, finance, healthcare or education, all located nearby.
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Sure, but what I don't get is why @concrete_and_light or anyone would need everything to be within a five or even ten-minute walk to determine where they'd like to live. I live a far longer walk than that to just about anything, and that has not stopped me from enjoying my spot, and in fact I cannot think of anywhere in Toronto that I would confine myself to just the closest environs, as I'd get bored of just staying within that small a sphere: there's a whole city out there!

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It's not the only factor of course, but immediate neighbourhood is definitely a big factor for where one lives. At least for me! Was just my own speculative reflection given the low sales on why people might not want to be spending their money there when they could buy somewhere else. Glad others seem to like this neighbourhood though!

P.S. I like this building a lot. Very much hope it gets built!
 
concrete_and_light said:
It's not the only factor of course, but immediate neighbourhood is definitely a big factor for where one lives. At least for me! Was just my own speculative reflection given the low sales on why people might not want to be spending their money there when they could buy somewhere else. Glad others seem to like this neighbourhood though!

P.S. I like this building a lot. Very much hope it gets built!
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I get that the immediate neighbourhood is important, I just think we have different ideas as to how close or far-ranging immediate is.

I want to see this redevelopment happen too, I especially like the improvements at ground level, they'll be crucial for actually making that specific block much more pedestrian friendly.

Regarding the higher psf prices here, I don't know anything specific about the costs of putting this building up compared to a more typical one where they don't have a massive heritage retention component to it, but I can imagine that this is not a cheap one to construct, and a reason that the prices are higher here. Developers do not walk into massive projects like this without weighing everything, including a lot of time spent talking with their financial partners. They know if they're going to charge more for units than other nearby projects, they have to offer something in return for that. The market then decides. If 75% of these suites are sold, then they weren't too far off, but if they are having trouble getting beyond that, they've got some thinking do to. And now, who knows where the market's going in the short term…

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interchange42 said:
The market then decides. If 75% of these suites are sold, then they weren't too far off, but if they are having trouble getting beyond that, they've got some thinking do to. And now, who knows where the market's going in the short term…
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I can say that if they already have committed financing, it may go forward.

If they don't, good luck. Lenders are NOT interested in lending right now to development projects - they are busy dealing with their own existing book of loans as well as managing their own liquidity to fund their revolving loans. Banks have been having trouble selling TREASURY bonds in the open market (historically considered cash-or-cash-equivalents), so their own liquidity is low in funding loans.

Larger developers should be ok, but smaller developers without a track record or history....well...who knows.
 
condovo said:
It's appealing to those working in government, finance, healthcare or education, all located nearby.
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Some people like a highly urban environment; others prefer a village-like setting even in the city. When I say my favourite place in Toronto is the plaza on King St. in front of the TD Centre, I often get puzzled looks.
 
Rimsky44 said:
I can say that if they already have committed financing, it may go forward.

If they don't, good luck. Lenders are NOT interested in lending right now to development projects - they are busy dealing with their own existing book of loans as well as managing their own liquidity to fund their revolving loans. Banks have been having trouble selling TREASURY bonds in the open market (historically considered cash-or-cash-equivalents), so their own liquidity is low in funding loans.

Larger developers should be ok, but smaller developers without a track record or history....well...who knows.
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This is exactly what I was thinking with this whole pandemic.

From what I understand, they did NOT have financing committed when I bought my suite in Sept 2019. The Baker sales rep told me they need 80% before they'll be able to secure the construction loan. That same sales rep recently told me sales were slow due to the holidays. Now given the pandemic and most builder sales centres becoming appointment only or closing completely, I doubt they'll be getting ANY sales as this pandemic is affecting the real estate market as well. So they're not at 80% sold, they likely will not have many sales in the next couple of months, if you're a developer, what do you do?

This is Davpart's first residential development and I honestly believe they wen't a little too big for their first residential project. Retail is COMPLETELY different than Residential.

We'll see what happens. It is a monumental development, so I don't know if the possibility of the project cancelling is an option, but rumour has it, they will cancel this project. Rumour started by my developer friend who's well known in the community.
 
Cryptopreneur said:
Now given the pandemic and most builder sales centres becoming appointment only or closing completely, I doubt they'll be getting ANY sales as this pandemic is affecting the real estate market as well. So they're not at 80% sold, they likely will not have many sales in the next couple of months, if you're a developer, what do you do?
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I know some developers have already invoked the "delay" clause for some projects in construction due to pandemic.

At this point, they can:
a) Keep waiting until 80% sold and hope they can find regular financing - likely invoking the "delay" clause,
b) Find alternative financing (translate - riskier, costlier),
c) Cancel project, or
d) Sell to another developer.
 
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