Hamilton TD Coliseum Renovations | ?m | 4s | OVG | BBB

[BCTed]

Where did you source that from? Glad they are putting in something new, and it will be 1000x better than the old one, but it looks pretty small, I think. London, Ontario's scoreboard for reference:

 

[JakeLRS]

TD Coliseum TikTok page.

Where did you source that from?

 

[berklon]

I don't have to see it in operation, or even hung up from the ceiling - I can already tell it's a lot better than the old scoreboard.

I'm fine with the size. Is anything bigger needed for an AHL/OHL team, or other sporting events that we may get?

 

[BCTed]

I don't have to see it in operation, or even hung up from the ceiling - I can already tell it's a lot better than the old scoreboard.

I'm fine with the size. Is anything bigger needed for an AHL/OHL team, or other sporting events that we may get?

It doesn't need to break any world records, but I would still hope that it at least matches the state-of-the-art in junior hockey and is as future-proofed as possible. And there are certainly many more major sporting events that can be held at the place than an AHL or OHL game.

We have heard the term "world class" many times with respect to the music capabilities of the arena --- it would be nice if the scoreboard is at least partially commensurate with that positioning.

 

[JakeLRS]

I think we may see more sport-related improvements once we get a permanent tenant.

At this point, it’s PWHL vs AHL in what we get. Maybe both?

A possible PWHL expansion team (they are expanding by 2-4 next year), or an AHL relocation (likely from Bridgeport).

Once we get a permanent hockey tenant, I hope they find a way to cover the floor suites with retractable seating since those are terrible sight lines for suites.

 

[berklon]

It doesn't need to break any world records, but I would still hope that it at least matches the state-of-the-art in junior hockey and is as future-proofed as possible. And there are certainly many more major sporting events that can be held at the place than an AHL or OHL game.

We have heard the term "world class" many times with respect to the music capabilities of the arena --- it would be nice if the scoreboard is at least partially commensurate with that positioning.

I'd be worried more about future-proofing if tax payer dollars were used for the upgrade. It's private money, so it doesn't bother me much.
I don't count the AHL or OHL as "major" and any sporting even bigger than that would be few and far between - so I'm not sure it's worth the investment.

They promised a great venue for music, which a scoreboard doesn't factor in - especially when it's usually raised during concerts.
I'm just glad it got upgraded at all. Plus, who knows - it may be a little better than we thought (even if it isn't bigger). I'll wait to hold judgement until I see it in action, and also how it looks in the newly renovated environment.

 

[TheHonestMaple]

Hamilton’s solution to the Salvation Army centre across the street:

Joey Coleman (@joeycoleman.ca)

CHCH News will be airing a report shorting on the new sidewalk curtain that was erected this morning in front of the Salvation Army Booth Centre earlier today. Watch them live on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KXliYYX5sw (People were asking me about this today) #HamOnt

bsky.app

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This is too funny lmao. So Hamilton it hurts. We have a serious drug addict issue downtown. Our solution? Just put up a fence so out of towners can't see it. Laughable.

 

[Yorken Bay]

I'd be worried more about future-proofing if tax payer dollars were used for the upgrade. It's private money, so it doesn't bother me much.
I don't count the AHL or OHL as "major" and any sporting even bigger than that would be few and far between - so I'm not sure it's worth the investment.

They promised a great venue for music, which a scoreboard doesn't factor in - especially when it's usually raised during concerts.
I'm just glad it got upgraded at all. Plus, who knows - it may be a little better than we thought (even if it isn't bigger). I'll wait to hold judgement until I see it in action, and also how it looks in the newly renovated environment.

I'm of the "aim higher" perspective.
Even without a major tenant, it would have been really cool if we would have had a brand new 2025 style rink. My goodness, do you see what they do with the architecture of these new places!?

Instead we're stuck with crappy old 1980s copps with a paint job.

New York has 3 modern arenas between Prudential, Barclay's and Belmont, plus the MSG upgrades. They're 5th arena is Nasseau County which looks a lot like Copps, they're 5th! Our second arena IS Copps lol.

I'd think the 4th largest metro area in North America deserves at least 2 top of the line arenas.

 

[BCTed]

I'm of the "aim higher" perspective.
Even without a major tenant, it would have been really cool if we would have had a brand new 2025 style rink. My goodness, do you see what they do with the architecture of these new places!?

Instead we're stuck with crappy old 1980s copps with a paint job.

New York has 3 modern arenas between Prudential, Barclay's and Belmont, plus the MSG upgrades. They're 5th arena is Nasseau County which looks a lot like Copps, they're 5th! Our second arena IS Copps lol.

I'd think the 4th largest metro area in North America deserves at least 2 top of the line arenas.

I hate to agree with you, but I do. A majorly renovated arena is way way better than a crumbling/obsolete arena. But it does seem like that street level concourse is pretty tight and is where they placed the bulk of the concessions, so it will may well be pretty crammed for big events. And I am guessing that the lounges on the upper level where the original concourse is take up a fair chunk of space, so maybe there isn't that much more room for better overall traffic flow throughout the place? And it does look overly dark?

It's still pretty cool to have OVG and Live Nation and TD and HUPEG on board with new concourses, lounges/restaurants, suites, concessions, seating, scoreboard, technology, improved acoustics, new exterior sign, cleaned up exterior, refreshed everything, more big events, and I am looking very much forward to checking all of it out.

 

[BCTed]

I'd be worried more about future-proofing if tax payer dollars were used for the upgrade. It's private money, so it doesn't bother me much.
I don't count the AHL or OHL as "major" and any sporting even bigger than that would be few and far between - so I'm not sure it's worth the investment.

They promised a great venue for music, which a scoreboard doesn't factor in - especially when it's usually raised during concerts.
I'm just glad it got upgraded at all. Plus, who knows - it may be a little better than we thought (even if it isn't bigger). I'll wait to hold judgement until I see it in action, and also how it looks in the newly renovated environment.

If tax dollars are not being used for the upgrade, then why not prefer a jumbo scoreboard over a smaller one? If it's private money, then why not just swing for the fences in your preferences, even if the on-the-ground reality is different?

I think you have stated a few times that you haven't even been to the place for many years. Bigger is better when it comes to these things, at least for me, and I will be attending events. Why not wish for something better?

 

[berklon]

If tax dollars are not being used for the upgrade, then why not prefer a jumbo scoreboard over a smaller one? If it's private money, then why not just swing for the fences in your preferences, even if the on-the-ground reality is different?

I think you have stated a few times that you haven't even been to the place for many years. Bigger is better when it comes to these things, at least for me, and I will be attending events. Why not wish for something better?

It's not a matter of what I prefer, it's a matter of what I'm willing to accept.

Sure, I'd like a scoreboard that rivals all the best ones arenas across Canada and the US have. Hell, I'd like a brand new arena built from scratch that looks gorgeous and has all the bells and whistles as well.
But I'm satisfied with what we got. Because we don't have a major tenant (ie. NHL team) - I can understand why they didn't spend more money to make the renovation even more extensive.

 

[Yorken Bay]

It's not a matter of what I prefer, it's a matter of what I'm willing to accept.

Sure, I'd like a scoreboard that rivals all the best ones arenas across Canada and the US have. Hell, I'd like a brand new arena built from scratch that looks gorgeous and has all the bells and whistles as well.
But I'm satisfied with what we got. Because we don't have a major tenant (ie. NHL team) - I can understand why they didn't spend more money to make the renovation even more extensive.

What you say is sound. I guess my issue is I'm left wanting more. OVG played up the fact we're in the middle of this huge market and there's really only ACC and Copps which is kinda insane. I think everyone here was like "yes! We known for years! Finally someone is going to do something about it!" And then delivered half of what we wanted.

I'm grateful for the investment, but it also feels like they don't have greater ambitions for us, despite the early praise. A grander building would have sent the signal more was to come: World Juniors, International games / tournaments, Memorial Cup, a major sports league that currently exists or will exist in the future, either full time or in some sort of time share arrangement.

 

[innsertnamehere]

What you say is sound. I guess my issue is I'm left wanting more. OVG played up the fact we're in the middle of this huge market and there's really only ACC and Copps which is kinda insane. I think everyone here was like "yes! We known for years! Finally someone is going to do something about it!" And then delivered half of what we wanted.

I'm grateful for the investment, but it also feels like they don't have greater ambitions for us, despite the early praise. A grander building would have sent the signal more was to come: World Juniors, International games / tournaments, Memorial Cup, a major sports league that currently exists or will exist in the future, either full time or in some sort of time share arrangement.

The ambition here has been pretty high - I'm not sure what more you could have wanted. Hamilton is an 800,000 market with fairly low median incomes, even lower disposable incomes, and a small list of potential corporate box buyers (the real money makers).

OVG is banking on overflow from the GTA, and I think they will get that right, but honestly I'm surprised by the amount of risk they took on here as it is in terms of investment. What we got was $300 million in private capital investment here - it's hard to get that much even in major markets.

Hamilton is never going to get something like Scotia Place in Calgary - which is a $1.2 billion project with $870 million of government subsidies.. and that's in a larger market with much deeper corporate pockets.

Hamilton just doesn't have the demographics or economy to support the scale of project you want, which requires deep government subsidies, deep local pockets, and a big-4 sports tenant to pencil. Hamilton has none of those. TD Coliseum is a small miracle in its own right.

 

[BCTed]

What you say is sound. I guess my issue is I'm left wanting more. OVG played up the fact we're in the middle of this huge market and there's really only ACC and Copps which is kinda insane. I think everyone here was like "yes! We known for years! Finally someone is going to do something about it!" And then delivered half of what we wanted.

I'm grateful for the investment, but it also feels like they don't have greater ambitions for us, despite the early praise. A grander building would have sent the signal more was to come: World Juniors, International games / tournaments, Memorial Cup, a major sports league that currently exists or will exist in the future, either full time or in some sort of time share arrangement.

I think they have delivered on what they promised so far. The World Juniors are not that huge a thing and the Memorial Cup is really not that huge a thing. Paul McCartney and some of the other acts are good gets. That stated, there haven't been too many really big shows announced so far, but more might be in the pipeline. Let's see.

 

[BCTed]

The ambition here has been pretty high - I'm not sure what more you could have wanted. Hamilton is an 800,000 market with fairly low median incomes, even lower disposable incomes, and a small list of potential corporate box buyers (the real money makers).

OVG is banking on overflow from the GTA, and I think they will get that right, but honestly I'm surprised by the amount of risk they took on here as it is in terms of investment. What we got was $300 million in private capital investment here - it's hard to get that much even in major markets.

Hamilton is never going to get something like Scotia Place in Calgary - which is a $1.2 billion project with $870 million of government subsidies.. and that's in a larger market with much deeper corporate pockets.

Hamilton just doesn't have the demographics or economy to support the scale of project you want, which requires deep government subsidies, deep local pockets, and a big-4 sports tenant to pencil. Hamilton has none of those. TD Coliseum is a small miracle in its own right.

I think Hamilton is effectively a greater-than-800k market for things like large concerts and other events, but less-than-800k for something like the AHL or OHL.

The $300 million reno is huge. It is certainly much better than the initially proposed $50 million (or somewhat more) when HUPEG was on its own. And it is a zillion times better than the idea that was floated for Hamilton's main arena to be a 6000 seat building at Lime Ridge Mall. And they have added a ton of bells and whistles. (And it will be nice to be rid of that embarrassing old scoreboard with whatever replaces it.)

My own biggest concern with the building is that it is simply space-limited no matter what you do with it. A comfortable building with an NHL capacity is typically over 600,000 square feet and TD has 450,000 or so. I hope that it now has a net increase in space to accommodate internal traffic flow.

Maybe neither here nor there, but the actual projected main arena cost for Calgary is "only" $800 million out of that $1.2 billion, and it had been estimated to be $600 million a couple of years back. The OVG people consider TD to be $150 million to $200 million in original structural value plus the reno, so TD might be a $450 million building compared to Calgary's $800 million.

The biggest emotional pain point is that while this reno is extensive and a great thing for Hamilton and way better than most of us had expected, it feels like a permanent closure to the NHL dream. That door may have been closed already, but this feels like official admission. I guess never say never though.