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Toronto Strong Contender For Olympic Games - IOC President

I would watch some sort of Olympic Idol myself.

I used to think the Olympics were great. When I was a kid. Now, maybe I have become to cynical. History tells us that the jokers running the Olympics have been corrupt. On one hand, talking about how Olympic ideals, and on the other, giving Games to dictatorships and countries on the brink of civil war and other examples just because they are slipped a few bills. I mean, the fact that T.O. lost to Atlanta because we were too aloof to know that even if your bid is technically perfect, you still need to hand over the cash to get results, still irks me. And don't get me started with China. Nevermind Tibet, China oppresses its own people - forcing mass expropriations in order to build the Olympic dream.

I wouldn't be angry if the Olympics came. I'd be happy. But we need to get past the thinking here in Toronto that we have to hold some sort of 'world-class' event in order to be 'world-class'. Whatever that means. Or that we need an NFL team. Or the Pan-Am games. Our leaders suck. They don't realise that Toronto is already great. In its neighbourhoods, in its cultural offerings, in the every-day things. Where is Toronto's Barack Obama?!
 
One "international" sporting event that is certainly within reach for Toronto is the NBA All-Star Game, the North American sport that gets the most coverage worldwide.

Toronto is in line for the All-Star Game, as it is one of just a handful of NBA cities that have never hosted. Unfortunately MLSE has decided that it wouldn't get an All-Star Game until Maple Leaf Square is built. If Toronto did bid for the past couple of All-Star Games, Las Vegas might never have hosted one.
 
carrefour said:
I mean, the fact that T.O. lost to Atlanta because we were too aloof to know that even if your bid is technically perfect, you still need to hand over the cash to get results, still irks me.
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Not that I disagree with your sentiment, but keep in mind that Toronto actually finished third in the vote results for the 1996 Olympics, after Atlanta and Athens.
 
But what about the last one we lost?

We're we suppose to win that one too? We were runner ups that time arond.
 
taal said:
But what about the last one we lost?

We're we suppose to win that one too? We were runner ups that time arond.
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Bread not Circuses did not help much in Toronto landing either bid.

Here is also a statement from Cathy Crowe, from the Toronto Disaster Relief Committee back in 2001

"We've got a homeless disaster on our streets, and an inappropriate amount of spending already on this bid that should be going into opening up shelters and creating housing," says Crowe. "Right now, the city is facing big budget cuts, and selling off lands that could be used for the "Let's Build" program that we could be building housing on. There are other cuts to social services. We're fighting for a thousand more shelter beds. Apparently there's no money for those things, but there's money for the bid. So that's our message: that the city is no shape for the Olympics."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2001/03/09/tor_breadnotcircuses030901.html

A lost bid and 8 years later have we got any further on this issue?
 
Anyone that says a Pan Am games success would assist in a future Olympic bid isn't in touch with what the technical criteria is for a good Olympic bid and how that compares to what the Pan Am bid is proposing. Our 2008 Olympic bid was spectacular because it was compact. A single Olympic village was a short distance from every venue and the bulk of the hotel stock was a short distance from the venues. The Pan Am bid is an excuse to build facilities all over the 905 which are often not the same scale as required by the Olympics. The only new venue proposed for Toronto is an aquatic centre out in Scarborough. It would not likely be an Olympic sized aquatic centre but something similar to the aquatic centres that exist in Canada Games host cities. I can't fathom why Hamilton would want a velodrome out of this... of all the pieces of infrastructure this tends to be the least used outside competition periods. If a velodrome is built it really only makes sense to build one in Toronto which can be fitted out to Olympic size requirements and which can serve other functions when not in use for cycling. To build one in Hamilton now and possibly build another in Toronto for an Olympics as part of a compact bid makes no sense at all.
 
"Not in touch?" Considering I'm in the process of devoting my education to this type of issue, I really find that insulting.

I agree that spreading out the event isn't the best scenario even for a Pan Am games (in fact I've said so elsewhere a couple times). I'd argue though that not everything in an Olympics is typically held in a compact square mile. Countless events like soccer, baseball, equestrian, canoe/kayak slalom and even rowing can't or shouldn't be held near downtown. Yes you can put a baseball game in Skydome, and I guess some interesting scheduling could put all the games there, but why not ensure there is strong enough infrastructure elsewhere?

The only place where things don't make a lot of sense is putting the athletics and velodrome in Hamilton. But, this will at least give us another stadium in the region to hold soccer matches (and the Ti-Cats are looking at getting a USL-1 team if the stadium is built). I'd still put rowing in St Catharines for an Olympics because Henley is world-class. I'd even put canoe/kayak racing events in Welland because that course is top notch too. You can look at the map and find events that could stay where they are simply because there's nowhere better for them, and there's nothing wrong with that because you can't put mountain biking in the Portlands.

What a Pan-Am games does is show the public that it's possible. It might also show us that perhaps there isn't a need to build a lot of fancy buildings if we believe that the ones we have in place can hold up. Obviously you throw some cash at upgrades and making things look better, but I could see the CNE grounds becoming an Olympic site. People talk about the Portlands being used, but I think we have a lot of great infrastructure in place at the CNE grounds, so why not use these games as a trial and go from there? Most people don't like hosting the games because of the cost. Well that's a way of cutting a lot of it out. Instead, we build an Olympic Stadium and you see what else you need. It's not imperative that every building be brand new and brilliant. Many places simply upgrade or retrofit their existing stadiums.

I should also say that the concerns over corruption and the like are no longer really necessary. Whether you believe it or not, there are rigid rules for IOC members now with regards to what they can and cannot do during the bidding process. The IOC learned its lesson, and I think the results of bids since they've reformed have showed that.
 
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A bunch of cheapo venues with low spectator capacities are what we're going to get with Pan Ams (because the event will bring in next to no revenue), and won't be of much use in an Olympic bid. I expect the Pan Am aquatics centre to be useless for an Olympic bid, espcially.
 
afransen said:
A bunch of cheapo venues with low spectator capacities are what we're going to get with Pan Ams (because the event will bring in next to no revenue), and won't be of much use in an Olympic bid. I expect the Pan Am aquatics centre to be useless for an Olympic bid, espcially.
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That's what doesn't make sense to me as well. If a Pan Am bid is a precursor to an Olympic bid as has been indicated by those leading the charge, surely the venues should be Olympic in calibre and capacity. If the exercise is purely to gain experience it makes more sense. Aquatics and athletics at the Olympics would surely be held in Toronto, not Hamilton.
 
At the risk of causing collective coronaries in St Catherines, I would be very strongly in favour of moving rowing out of there for an Olympics. Rowing is one of the few summer sports in which Canada is consistently competitive for medals, and it should be one of the centrepieces of the bid plan. The idea of building a proper course on the Ship Channel--right in the middle of everything--for the 2008 bid was fantastic in my book.

Boating events are too often shunted off to far-off locations, which is a shame for such exciting sports. If we make a waterfront bid, surely they should be at the centre.
 
isaidso said:
That's what doesn't make sense to me as well. If a Pan Am bid is a precursor to an Olympic bid as has been indicated by those leading the charge, surely the venues should be Olympic in calibre and capacity. If the exercise is purely to gain experience it makes more sense. Aquatics and athletics at the Olympics would surely be held in Toronto, not Hamilton.
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Athletics in Hamilton makes some sense. Ivor Wynne is old and dilapidated, and the Ti-Cats need a new stadium. They've also expressed interest in bringing in a USL team (soccer) to share the stadium if it's built. For an Olympics, you would need a couple Soccer stadiums to hold matches, and besides BMO there isn't another top notch facility in the region. Soccer is a big event in the Olympics, so a second stadium that could hold 20,000 is a necessity.

They would never build an Olympic calibre stadium for a Pan Am games. It's unnecessary. So why not wait to get the games and then build something state-of-the-art and who knows, perhaps an NFL team will be in our neck of the woods by then to use it once the games are gone.

For other events, the smart thing to do would be to build venues that can be expanded easily. I don't think the Pan Am bid is a way of being an absolute precursor to an event that we're not sure we'd get. Why build huge Olympic size venues only to never get the games? It's not a given that Toronto will get them, although I'm sure eventually we would. You'd end up with the Hamilton Copps Coliseum scenario if you build massive and elaborate state of the art facilities and never get an Olympics to put in them.

I think the idea for the Pan Ams of putting a lot of events on the CNE grounds is an excellent idea because there is probably room for expansion if we ever made another Olympic Bid. I don't think any of us know how many people you can fit in the Automotive Building for an event, so why not wait and see what they'll do with these games and maybe there's an opportunity for expansion as part of an Olympic bid.

As for rowing, Henley is a world class facility that has held international events including World Championships. If cost is a concern, why not go with something proven? I agree that holding rowing with downtown as a backdrop is a great idea, but there's something to be said about great permanent facilities we already have in place.
 
One of the things that we never see on TV during the Olympics is the extensive "training/practice" facilities that are needed to host a bid.

We see the 6 - 8 big venues where the tv cameras are and think that is all that has to be built.

To be honest, we have let our sporting infrascture fall so far that I am not even sure we have existing facilities adequate enough to be the practice venues for things like swimming and water polo and cycling (to name 3)....so, perhaps, what we get out of a successful Pan Am games bid is experience/exposure and those behind-the-scenes practice facilities.
 
In light of how much the country seems to be embracing these games (despite the plethora of 4th and 5th place finishes), I wouldn't be surprised if the powers that be in this city aren't kicking tires to see what kind of interest there is in a 2020 bid. A big obstacle is Marcel Aubut's desire to have Quebec City host the 2022 games (which seems absurd). I think when you watch the crowds in Vancouver and you see just how much of a party it is (and it would be fair to say that as much of the spectacle is the non-sport events as it is all the sports themselves), it's hard to not get excited about the prospects of such an event being in your own town. I know my girlfriend and I have talked about how we wish we would have made plans to go to Vancouver after seeing the type of atmosphere there.

Cue the cynics though...
 
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