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Toronto St. Clair West Transit Improvements | ?m | ?s | TTC

I have witnessed drivers using that signal to turn on many occasions. They totally miss the sign that says Transit Signal and assume it says Turning Signal or something similar since signals mounted to the left side of the street tend to be left turn signals. There is no driver out there that would accidentally go on two dots switching to two dots.
 
EnviroTO said:
I have witnessed drivers using that signal to turn on many occasions. They totally miss the sign that says Transit Signal and assume it says Turning Signal or something similar since signals mounted to the left side of the street tend to be left turn signals. There is no driver out there that would accidentally go on two dots switching to two dots.
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There have been collisons because of car drivers who mistake the "transit signal" for a left turn since they look so much like the regular traffic signals.
 
W. K. Lis said:
There have been collisons because of car drivers who mistake the "transit signal" for a left turn since they look so much like the regular traffic signals.
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Strictly speaking, "transit" doesn't refer to buses and streetcars. It refers to anything transiting the intersection. At a minimum, it should say "Public Transit Signal". Though surely "TTC signal" or "Streetcar Signal" ...

It's a poor choice of words. I pity a poor driver from out of town who is not familiar with the road ...
 
If there is FOUR big bright red lights directly over each lane on roads like St. Clair and Spadina and two small irregular lights in the middle that are designed so that they don't even appear to be intended for a vehicle looking at it from that perspective labeled 'Transit Signal' why would someone driving a car think the signal was inteded for them. When the streetcars starting running in the first place there were accidents, but after a few weeks the locals get used to the design. The same can be said with the cycle of traffic lights and the design of the streetcar signal system. T
 
Jaye101 said:
If there is FOUR big bright red lights directly over each lane on roads like St. Clair and Spadina and two small irregular lights in the middle that are designed so that they don't even appear to be intended for a vehicle looking at it from that perspective labeled 'Transit Signal' why would someone driving a car think the signal was intended for them.
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It doesn't really matter why they would think it's for them on a philosophical basis ... the question is do accidents occur?

Jaye101 said:
When the streetcars starting running in the first place there were accidents, but after a few weeks the locals get used to the design.
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The next question is can changing the design, reduce accidents ... and potentially save lives.
 
nfitz said:
It doesn't really matter why they would think it's for them on a philosophical basis ... the question is do accidents occur?
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Exactly. The concern should always be the outcome of the policy.

I frequently turn onto Gunns Road where the new ROW is, and just a few days ago when the transit signal went green, there was a split second where I thought it was OK to turn left -- but didn't go. This is from someone who has turned left on Spadina tonnes of times and knows that there are transit signals. So I can certainly imagine a lot of less experienced drivers or tourists making that mistake, with tragic results.
 
duper said:
So I can certainly imagine a lot of less experienced drivers or tourists making that mistake, with tragic results.
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I've commented on this forum before ...

... I can't be the only Toronto driver who has accidently turned onto the streetcar ROW (westbound Lakeshore to southbound Bathurst, in the dark), missed a flashing crosswalk (I really don't find the flashing lights that visible, when contrasted against the big yellow sign and the sun ... fortunately, I was watching for pedestrians, and still stopped), or has gone past an open streetcar door (I hate the Main/Gerrard intersection ... I'll swear the thing had already stopped once, and while simultaneously watching for pedestrians, turning cars, etc., the doors flying open as I passed surprised me ...

Accidents are easy ... even for those of us that know the city. The challenge is to minimze them, and reduce the severity of outcomes (which is why some cities are going to roundabouts where they fit ... because although there may be a few more dented cars ... you don't get the T-bone collisions that kill people).
 
nfitz said:
I've commented on this forum before ...

... I can't be the only Toronto driver who has accidently turned onto the streetcar ROW (westbound Lakeshore to southbound Bathurst, in the dark), missed a flashing crosswalk (I really don't find the flashing lights that visible, when contrasted against the big yellow sign and the sun ... fortunately, I was watching for pedestrians, and still stopped), ....
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In fact someone was killed on this ROW about 2 years ago when they drove into a streetcar. However, the problem here is not the traffic lights or the pedestrians it is that the entrance to this ROW - actually on Fleet Street - is not well marked and the right turns for traffic from Bathurst onto Fleet or Lakeshore are not really the obvious places to go. Not sure how it could be improved but 'something should be done'!
 
DSC said:
In fact someone was killed on this ROW about 2 years ago when they drove into a streetcar.
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It should be noted that not only were they on the ROW but they were on the left side of the ROW (driving against streetcar traffic) at fairly high speed while drunk. For bonus points, most of the photographs on the memorial (near the new crosswalk on Fleet) showed the girl who died in bars with a drink in her hand.

I lived on Fleet while it was being rebuilt. One lady moved the barricades (pretty sure she must have gotten out of her car to do this), drove down the ROW honking at me as a pedestrian walking down the middle of the under construction ROW and drove into a rather deep sewer hole. I don't think this can be blamed on the design of the ROW.


The obvious solution, if design is a problem, is to use a surface which rubber tired vehicles cannot drive on.
 
Ie. Houston:

1296426006_f1862cc721.jpg
 
Last Saturday, driving with a friend, and he almost drove onto the ROW on Bathurst south of Lakeshore. He had no idea the ROW was even there.
 
St Clair line has to be the worst planning ever by the city and ttc,it looks terrible,traffic is a nightmare during rush hour,imagine what will happen during winter or a simple car accident on that stretch of road.If I owned a business on that street I be suing the city for compensation for lost of business.......
 
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