Toronto Spadina Subway Extension Emergency Exits | ?m | 1s | TTC | IBI Group

TJ O'Pootertoot said:
I don't think there's anyone I generally support who hasn't let me down in some way during this recent transit "debate."

The fact that he thought the buses run from Finch could just be a slip of the tongue. The fact that he doesn't know they run constantly and packed is more galling. Just another downtowner who has no clue what's going on outside the old city. (Of course, Rob Ford isn't a downtowner but then his inability to grasp even the broadest nuances of transit -- right down to the routing of the line to which he is vehemently opposed -- stem from a whole different set of intellectual deficits).

IF you want to attack the Spadina extension as being the "same mistake" as Scarborough I suppose you could point out it was also suburban vote buying. That's a fair enough argument (even if I don't 100% agree) but it doesn't change the fact there was no regional transit plan in place when the extension was funded. My problem with Scarborough isn't LRT vs. subway (because even if I prefer LRT, you could at least ARGUE for a subway) but how the process has entirely subverted the principles of having Metrolinx and The Big Move.

New transit planning, same as the old transit planing.
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Many people who attack this expansion just don't like the fact that it crosses Steeles. If it stopped at Steeles you wouldn't see all those complaints. They also make it seem like it's taking money from the downtown relief line when Toronto is now building a subway in Scarborough but yet they wan to get mad at York Region for wanting the subway to go 2 km to Vaughan.
 
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Adjei said:
Many people who attack this expansion just don't like the fact that it crosses Steeles. If it stopped at Steeles you wouldn't see all those complaints. They also make it seem like it's taking money from the downtown relief line when Toronto is now building a subway in Scarborough but yet they wont get mad at York Region for wanting the subway to go 2 km to Vaughan.
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York Region just wants two subways so they can save money on buses (both operating and capital) like they have been doing for the past few years.
 
york will be paying for the subway operations, don't be a fool and think otherwise. The TTC will send them the bill every year for the portion north of Steeles.
 
nope, it will be the same setup with the buses the TTC currently runs north of Steeles. TTC runs them, and sends the bill to York.
 
This has nothing (or not much) to do with bus operating costs in York Region. it has to do with development plans.

In a few decades, we'll know (to stay on thread) if Vaughan Metropolitan Centre and all of Places to Grow was a total bust. In the meantime, the hope is that extending the subway (barely!) into the suburbs will facilitate a different, more sustainable kind of development. It's provincially legislated and York's official plan etc. etc. so even if it saves them a few bucks on buses, that's a really insulting way to portray what's going on here. (And that's not even getting into how many HUNDREDS of those buses clog up Yonge street for motorists, spewing CO2 into the air, damaging the roads etc., all because the current terminal isn't near where its riders are coming from.)

Anyway, i agree with all the other analyses above. It's about obsolete borders. If, back in the dreamy days of the Harris era, Thornhill had been amalgamated into Toronto, no one would be complaining about a subway up to Steeles. but it's the idea of why "we" should help "them" that's driving the antagonism, just as it has in Scarborough. When everyone realizes we're all in the same boat, maybe things can move forward.
 
I still maintain that we need to make a form of a GTA government much like the old metro to handle things.. Stick in the surrounding municipalities and have it run things such as transit with a new expanded TTC service, (repaint current buses and set up a more distance based fare system) police, etc. the GTA is simply too disconnected today with little to no interaction between the municipalities.
 
Yes, there's definitely a governance issue. To circle to my Harris dig, the problem wasn't that he created a single government for Toronto, especially since one kind of existed already. The problem was that he made no effort to consider what the best model would be, where borders should be drawn etc. (and ignored the Golden report, more to the point) and just threw it all together to create the illusion he was saving money.

I hope that Metrolinx might be the impetus for such a new model but it's been looking suspect these past few weeks. When the province puts real revenue tools on the table (in the spring, I suppose?) we'll see if that's going to happen. The disconnection - in which the TTC, York Region and the larger region all have conflicting priorities - is the biggest part of the problem now, once you get past the money thing.

We already saw Rob Ford dividing the city with his city/suburbs mentality. That's just playing out on a bigger scale between Toronto and the regions and it's hugely counter-productive.
 
TJ O'Pootertoot said:
This has nothing (or not much) to do with bus operating costs in York Region. it has to do with development plans.

In a few decades, we'll know (to stay on thread) if Vaughan Metropolitan Centre and all of Places to Grow was a total bust. In the meantime, the hope is that extending the subway (barely!) into the suburbs will facilitate a different, more sustainable kind of development. It's provincially legislated and York's official plan etc. etc. so even if it saves them a few bucks on buses, that's a really insulting way to portray what's going on here. (And that's not even getting into how many HUNDREDS of those buses clog up Yonge street for motorists, spewing CO2 into the air, damaging the roads etc., all because the current terminal isn't near where its riders are coming from.)
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Insulting? LOL. In the other thread it's an explicit goal of York Region to cut back on bus service and capital purchases and they've been proving it for a few years now. The people being insulted are the ones paying the highest ticket prices in the GTA only to see everything flow to their precious Yonge line and everything else cut to the bare bone. New NHL arena in Markham!!!
 
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