My answer to "Why build all the way to Vaughan?"
How long do people have to say that the 407 stop will really be useful until everyone else realizes that it actually will?
The 407 stop will integrate into the regional network. In the short term, it will allow people using the 407 to get onto the subway and, with better Go reliability, the Barrie Go line. In the long term, it will be a stop on the 407 transitway. Taking the transitway to either York U or VMC would in this case be a highly unnecessary, costly and time consuming detour.
Finally, I am starting to see some proper answers to all these questions you guys have about why build this or that station?
And finally, you guys have got me so riled up that I decided to join in the conversation rather than just be a spectator. Sorry it took me so long. You’ll be sorry to see this long message!
I think the biggest problem with most of you guys is that you’re not willing to sift through all the publicly available documentation on this subway extension. Now, please don’t take me as someone who has inside knowledge; I don’t. Also, understand that I will try to spell out only stuff that I recall seeing in these documents. I will use “I think†if I’m concerned that I may not recall the exact info.
Transitioning from tunnel to open space is difficult because of the long length of track required to do this without exceeding the maximum slope. Since the subway had to go through developed area at Finch and Keele, it was deemed too expensive and unworkable to have the track transition to elevated track at Downsview Park. There is little to no room to transition after Finch and Keele.
York U wanted the station to be within their Commons area, which meant that an underground station was the only choice.
That meant there was no room for transition to above-ground before Steeles West. After Steeles West, an elevated rail would conflict with overhead power lines. But what if the transition from below to above occurred after Steeles West? Well, the ground surface elevation increases too much at that point that you’d never get the rails high enough in time to cross over the 407. If I recall the TTC study on this that I saw on the Internet a couple of years ago (and I wish I could find it now!), they pointed out that to successfully cross above the 407 there would need to be an 8% slope upwards which is well outside the trains’ capabilities.
Now, as to “Why build all the way to Vaughan?†I cannot find any proof that it wasn’t a political decision, but there is more to it than just politics. TTC has stringent requirements for station design. The tracks must be level within it and for a certain distance before and after it. The tracks cannot be curved within it and for a certain long distance before and after. The end-of-the-line station must have a great length of track installed beyond it, called the tail track, which requires cut and cover construction because it includes crossover track. The tail track also must be level with no curves.
So, with that knowledge it becomes a little clearer why each station is being built as planned. To wit:
Sheppard West: Integration with new GO Train station. Its justification is probably political (see below).
Keele-Finch: has to be below ground. Since it is aligned with Keele, it could be possible to build tail track there, but the real reason to build the subway to this point is to bring it to York U.
York U: No room for cut and cover, therefore construction of tail track is impossible until you get very close to Steeles, so you might as well build another station at Steeles.
Steeles West: This probably is the best alternative end point. However, tail track construction would be difficult/impossible due to Pioneer Village, Black Creek, and electrical towers being in the way, so that is why they’re tunneling there. And then, you’re already so close to the proposed Transitway that you might as well continue on north and build a station there.
407: Yes, it’s a commuter-only station. But it’ll get more demand than you guys think. See below. At this point, using cut and cover to build a tail track would require immense disruption to the 407, and at this point, track level is much deeper than average below ground because it had to cross under the Black Creek valley, and because of the marked increase in ground elevation in that area. The cheapest area to build the tail track would be in the fields north of the 407 but then you’re already so close to Hwy 7 you might as well build another station there. Instead the area between 407 and 7 is used to allow for a shallower slope upwards.
Vaughan Metropolitan Centre: The ground is very level here and there is lots of open space to allow for cheap cut and cover construction of the tail track. Vaughan had rapid transitway plans for Highway 7 well before the subway plans were finalized so that city was interested in getting the subway there. Its location is at Millway rather than Jane because the Black Creek valley is too close to Jane Street, making cut and cover impossible there.
So, it seems to me that to properly design a subway all the way to York U, you end up with a vicious cycle of needing to build stations further and further north to satisfy all the construction requirements, until you find very level ground with lots of open space.
Probably the most obvious political argument is the interest Ontario has with integrating GO Transit with the TTC. When GO decided to buy all those double-decker busses a few years back, they admitted that they were exclusively for the 407 Express East and West routes, and they admitted that these two routes were the only profitable routes for the whole GO system. And when I drive on the 407 on the weekdays I always see lots of GO busses. In other words, the Transitway isn’t even built yet, but they already today have demand for the 407 station! Once the subway is built, then GO will (I think) drop the York U stop entirely and simply use the 407 subway station. And the parking lot is not just for the subway but also a bit for commuters on the GO 407 Express routes.
Meanwhile, York Region Transit plans to drop VIVA service to York U once the 407 subway station is finished. They have left the door open to keep VIVA going to Steeles West if that works for the better, but no further south.
I hope I’ve kept you all interested enough to get to the end of this post!
. I think I accept all of what you've said in your post except for one thing. Tailtracks aren't absolutely necessary. I think it was in the Sheppard LRT document, I'm not sure, but the Sheppard subway doesn't have tailtracks. This is because of the complexities when meeting the 404 highway. So, it's possible to stop a subway line at any of the stations in the Spadina extension, it doesn't matter since the Sheppard subway was stopped in the same way.
