Toronto Spadina Subway Extension Emergency Exits | ?m | 1s | TTC | IBI Group

Lone Primate said:
This little fiefdom pissing contest stuff is the reason I don't take the bus to work. I wouldn't mind the reading time, but paying a second fare just because I cross an imaginary line that didn't even exist till 1953?
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I agree entirely. I used to work at Langstaff and the 400, while living at Dufferin and St. Clair, and when I got the job I looked at trying to take the TTC. That was an eye opener. 2 Fares, over 2 hours, on top of all the other TTC troubles like crowding, strikes, etc. So it was Black Creek Drive and the 400 everyday, which was not only a lot faster but cheaper in terms of gas/day versus 4 fares/day.

Now if I was still there when the Spadina extension opens, I would have been a 15 minute walk from a subway station. I would certainly have done that.
 
khristopher said:
Um Hazel is horrible lol. She'd be a better mayor for a smaller place like Milton or something...
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Oh, yeah, Hazel sucks. That's why three quarters of a million people -- intelligent, educated, urban folks just like you -- have re-elected her over and over and over again since before you were born or not very long afterwards.

Look. We're talking about someone who actually has insight and management ability, which is why Mississauga grew from a bunch of farming communities into one of the largest cities in Canada in a generation without larding on a crippling debt, and has amelioration plans in place for the ongoing upkeep of existing infrastructure into the future without incurring a debt even now that the heady days of development in the city are largely over. We're talking about someone with a knack for picking smart people to build a city that you can actually get around in, which is why hundreds of corporate headquarters and light industrial facilities have flocked there. That's EXACTLY the kind of person the GTA needs to keep this place from turning into a lunatic asylum of competing interests, retrograde rules, and overly-parochial planning models that see roads in one community dead-end at the border of another and people double-fared for daring to cross a municipal border that exists only in someone's head.

The mayors we've had in Toronto since Crombie have been people dedicated to keeping it Mayberry in 1950 forever -- but unfortunately, the city has moved on far beyond that. But the people downtown keep voting for them en masse so that's what we get. We need people who actually understand there's life beyond the Don and north of Bloor Street, and we need them NOW.

Toronto doesn't end at Steeles Avenue, except on paper. We need to start facing the reality of what Toronto REALLY is.
 
LP:

That's why three quarters of a million people -- intelligent, educated, urban folks just like you -- have re-elected her over and over and over again since before you were born or not very long afterwards.
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Actually you should check out the voter turnout for the past few elections...

Look. We're talking about someone who actually has insight and management ability, which is why Mississauga grew from a bunch of farming communities into one of the largest cities in Canada in a generation without larding on a crippling debt, and has amelioration plans in place for the ongoing upkeep of existing infrastructure into the future without incurring a debt even now that the heady days of development in the city are largely over.
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This is totally off topic, but you should check out this article on the matter:

http://www.thestar.com/article/445138

Mississauga is just following the trajectory of urban development, a la Etobicoke, North York and Scarborough. It was fun while it lasted though.

AoD
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Actually you should check out the voter turnout for the past few elections...
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What, are you hinting perhaps there some huge groundswell of dissatisfaction that emerged to unseat her that I'm not aware of? Perhaps it was stifled and McCallion is our own Robert Mugabe? Or maybe, in a country where we don't force people to vote, a lot of fairly satisfied people simply didn't get off their asses because they didn't feel the need? Not a responsible attitude, I admit, but actually it might be a point in her favour.


AlvinofDiaspar said:
This is totally off topic, but you should check out this article on the matter:

http://www.thestar.com/article/445138
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I had a friend bring that article to my attention a little while ago, largely for the same reason you're doing it. People love to tear down success at the first thread to be tugged. But there is no getting around that the city was built without a debt. There's no getting around that the fringe of the REAL city of Toronto could use that acumen. And if we didn't have these stupid, pointless, artificial lines drawn between the areas in development and those already established, the developing areas would have access to the existing infrastructure and the developed areas would have the burden of the infrastructure funded by the expansion. Instead, we deny the one to the other, hampering development, kneecapping GTA-wide solutions and strategies, and forcing gentrification onto any city in the region as soon as it matures. I'm utterly amazed Toronto, the GTA, has been anywhere near as successful as it has been with this incredible lack of overall planning. We must be farting horseshoes on an hourly basis.
 
LP:

Getting totally OT here. Don't get me wrong here - I do agree that it is high time for regional vision and coordination. But giving me Mississauga as an example of what "best practice" is simply wrong as that article has demostrated - that the fun times had more to do with how the assets of the city was leveraged for current, not future benefits - which is exactly what the other municipalities that made up Metro then also did during their period of development. If one is truly into having visions, there should be at the very least harmonized business and residential tax rates across the entire region, social services pooling, etc. That, of course, is something that even said visionaries would balk at.

AoD
 
I've never seen this figure before.... this shows how buses will continue to use the busway after the subway is complete.

futureUse_BuswaySubOper_b.jpg
 
Lone Primate said:
Sez who? What do you think all that stuff is on Hwy 400 and Black Creek Drive every morning, sight-seers? Public transit, in aid of getting people of out cars, is the archetypal example of bringing the mountain to Mohamed.
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Please, actually read my posts instead of using fragments of them to launch into your rants. I certainly do not need to be lectured on the topics you're ranting about. In fact, I'm one of the only people here who actually supports the extension to Vaughan. I'm also defining "high ridership" as something equivalent to or more than other terminus stretches, like the Yonge line at Finch...it's highly improbable, even decades from now, that the Corporate Centre station will see over 90,000 daily riders like Finch does.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
there should be at the very least harmonized business and residential tax rates across the entire region, social services pooling, etc. That, of course, is something that even said visionaries would balk at.
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Well, not me; that's exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. That, and so much else that needlessly changes when you're on one side of a given street rather than the other. You've missed my point: the GTA -- Toronto, in reality -- remains a growing city, and needs the experience of an administration that managed one. But because of the artificial divisions of the city, problems become extremely localized and hard to manage by arbitrarily small populations divorced from the resources required to handle them. Smallpox could wipe any any group of cave dwellers in a weekend. But a nation state is much more likely to survive, even possibly marshal the resources to save those few sufferers. Those are the kinds of things I'm talking about, and is completely germane, to my mind, to the question of where the Spadina subway ought to extend...
 
Ryuinfinity said:
Weird. What's the point of this new subway then?
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The subway isn't going to be operational for at least another seven or so years. The busway is an interim measure. As you can see from the diagram, it's not like it'll cease being useful the second the subway opens either.
 
I like Hazel's fiscal prudence.

However you can't blame her for making her city suburban. Try talking in 1990 about creating LRT lines in Mississauga and you would be out off office in no time.
 
Panzerfaust said:
The subway isn't going to be operational for at least another seven or so years. The busway is an interim measure. As you can see from the diagram, it's not like it'll cease being useful the second the subway opens either.
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It won't be very useful once the extension opens...especially if Finch will have its streetcar.
 
lordmandeep said:
I like Hazel's fiscal prudence.

However you can't blame her for making her city suburban. Try talking in 1990 about creating LRT lines in Mississauga and you would be out off office in no time.
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Sure I can. Having been at the helm for virtually all of Mississauga's existence, ultimately she is responsible for the terrible way it developed.
 
Lone Primate said:
Oh, yeah, Hazel sucks. That's why three quarters of a million people -- intelligent, educated, urban folks just like you -- have re-elected her over and over and over again since before you were born or not very long afterwards.

Look. We're talking about someone who actually has insight and management ability, which is why Mississauga grew from a bunch of farming communities into one of the largest cities in Canada in a generation without larding on a crippling debt, and has amelioration plans in place for the ongoing upkeep of existing infrastructure into the future without incurring a debt even now that the heady days of development in the city are largely over. We're talking about someone with a knack for picking smart people to build a city that you can actually get around in, which is why hundreds of corporate headquarters and light industrial facilities have flocked there. That's EXACTLY the kind of person the GTA needs to keep this place from turning into a lunatic asylum of competing interests, retrograde rules, and overly-parochial planning models that see roads in one community dead-end at the border of another and people double-fared for daring to cross a municipal border that exists only in someone's head.

The mayors we've had in Toronto since Crombie have been people dedicated to keeping it Mayberry in 1950 forever -- but unfortunately, the city has moved on far beyond that. But the people downtown keep voting for them en masse so that's what we get. We need people who actually understand there's life beyond the Don and north of Bloor Street, and we need them NOW.

Toronto doesn't end at Steeles Avenue, except on paper. We need to start facing the reality of what Toronto REALLY is.
Click to expand...

I did NOT vote for her. Very very few people turn out for municipal elections.
She has made the problems that now exist with Mississauga. The city could have turned out far better, but she is the reason it is how it is today, with 8 lane roads.
 
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