EnviroTO
Senior Member
What does the TTC use all of those non-public rooms for. They have them in every station and the volume of all of them when combined must be enormous. Are the people running the TTC pack rats or something?
Toronto Spadina Subway Extension Emergency Exits | ?m | 1s | TTC | IBI Group
- Thread starter 299 bloor call control.
- Start date
Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
Supplies, spare parts, staff rest/dressing areas (for stations that change overs happen at), you'd be surprised just how much room is needed/
jwill
Active Member
Most of that space is for mechanical systems. Subways have huge ventilation needs, as well as heating, fire control, pumps, electrical, telecom, etc.
scarberiankhatru
Senior Member
Sheppard West has a ginormous mezzanine and space for about 5 Cinnabons...what an awesome plan.
York U really only has one entrance, which may not be ideal for actual station users, no matter how grand and world class the concourse may be.
York U really only has one entrance, which may not be ideal for actual station users, no matter how grand and world class the concourse may be.
Chuck
Senior Member
Massively overbuilt, and complete waste of money. Our city simply does not have the spare change to build on this scale. These stations need not have any greater street presence than Museum, nor a concourse level larger than King, if any. Build 4-6 separate entrances to meet current code requirements, each with stairs/escalator/elevator leading directly from street level down to the platform. One surface structure similar in size to Summerhill could house the fare collector, and also lead directly down to the tracks. No intermediate concourse level, no unnecessary excavation.
With the money saved, build an extra kilometre of the Yonge subway. Or, trim a few hundred million from the overall project budget to relieve funding issues.
With the money saved, build an extra kilometre of the Yonge subway. Or, trim a few hundred million from the overall project budget to relieve funding issues.
Second_in_pie
Senior Member
EDIT: ^^ That's exactly what I thought too.
I actually love the way Museum Station exists as just a hole sticking out of the ground. There are so many opportunities to do that and have a little mezzanine/concourse, which would save millions of dollars per station.
York University actually looks like it will be a reasonable station. There should be at least another exit though, or plans to build another exit at least.
I actually love the way Museum Station exists as just a hole sticking out of the ground. There are so many opportunities to do that and have a little mezzanine/concourse, which would save millions of dollars per station.
This is exactly what I thought when I saw those plans.
York University actually looks like it will be a reasonable station. There should be at least another exit though, or plans to build another exit at least.
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jwill
Active Member
I'm not convinced that these are overbuilt. York U is a major destination that will see big volumes at certain times. And Sheppard West may be in the middle of nowhere, but it is a transfer station (to Barrie GO line). It could see some significant use if GO ever manages to transform itself into a regional rail network.
I'd prefer the TTC to build these kinds of stations bigger than we need today, so that nobody complains that they are too small when people start using them. Of all the Spadina and Yonge extension stations, these two and the terminals should be the biggest.
I'd prefer the TTC to build these kinds of stations bigger than we need today, so that nobody complains that they are too small when people start using them. Of all the Spadina and Yonge extension stations, these two and the terminals should be the biggest.
EnviroTO
Senior Member
York U is fine. A subway station which serves an entire university will have plenty of users. However, the current station design has a single entrance in the middle of a traffic loop which is probably less than ideal. Usually a design with two exits on opposite ends of the stations is preferable, especially ones connected to adjacent buildings, because it means a shorter outdoor walk for users.
Sheppard West will never have the volume King, Queen, or Dundas currently handles with a much smaller footprint. I looks great and very artistic but it doesn't seem economical nor designed in the same reality as downtown stations. Having two entrances and two GO platforms is sensible but the scale seems much larger than required.
jwill
Active Member
Agreed, it will probably never see the volume that King, Queen, etc. But there are two big differences. First, being on a GO line means this station will see little traffic most of the day, then a big spike in traffic when a GO train lets its passengers off. It needs to be designed for this crush load potential. Downtown stations get more of a steady flow of people in and out. Secondly, this station isn't sitting below Yonge St, between foundation walls. It has plenty of space, so its not a huge waste to use it.
Whoaccio
Senior Member
What a waste of money.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Is it all that bad though? At worst they've wasted a few million dollars. We are talking a percent or two of the project's total cost. It’s not anything that would pay for even an extra km of subway on Yonge. Now that's not a good thing but let's keep it in perspective. Keep in mind that the construction of Sheppard West is going to be far cheaper and easier than modifying stations downtown. It might not cost them all that much to put up an expansive station compared to the astronomical sums involved with doing work on underground stations. I would have preferred smaller, less expensive stations. But we could do far worse than these plans (a certain giant underground bus terminal comes to mind). We should hold our fire for the far worse decisions that come out of the tail end of the Red Rocket.
Whoaccio
Senior Member
^
It's all part of the same culture of monument building though. The same guy who thinks building massively overszied stations in the middle of nowhere, complete with "wings" and green roofs no one needs, is the same guy who thinks it is necessary to build underground bus stations bigger than Mt St. Helen's crater.
It's all part of the same culture of monument building though. The same guy who thinks building massively overszied stations in the middle of nowhere, complete with "wings" and green roofs no one needs, is the same guy who thinks it is necessary to build underground bus stations bigger than Mt St. Helen's crater.
Acting Minor Traitor
New Member
That'd be 99 Arrow Rd, and I don't think so; it looks like its primary reason for being is to provide service to the Arrow Road Garage. It's not even the only bus route that doesn't link to the subway anymore, either - 171 Mt Dennis serves Mount Dennis Garage, and just runs around in the same sort of circle.
scarberiankhatru
Senior Member
Since when is a hundred people a crush load? Because that's (generously) about how many will ever use the GO interchange at a time.
This is a waste of money and a waste of space. Inexcusable.
UD2
Active Member
If you find it so inexcusable then why don't you spend this time and walk to the city hall, put up a sign, and fight for it to be changed. Along with all the other things against the TTC you have to complain about.
I find the constant pounding and complaining on this forum a bit naive. We could all agree with you and it still wouldn't make a difference other than us agreeing with you, which not all of us do.
If you want change you got to go out and fight for it. Sitting at home in front of a computer ranting on an internet forum ain't gonna get you what you want.
Frankly I find the designs OK to accept. York's entrance is located in a good location simply because there isn't much of anything due east of that point at this moment. Also to add that I believe the area due east of the station is some type of a reserved green area, so I believe nothing much would go there in the future either (correct me if I'm wrong).
Sheppard may seem to be a bit overbuilt at this point, but then so was the entire Spadina subway line when it was being constructed. The point of building infrastructure like this is so that they'll still be adequate 50 years from now. I don't understand why people don't get this. It’s the same thing with stops like York Mills, Lawrance and even Sheppard when they were planned. Those stations were also much bigger than it was justified for with the ridership that it served when they were constructed. But look where we are now.
We're building something that's meant to serve not only us but our children and their children and even their children's children. Let's keep that in mind when before we start complaining and remember that it will be much more expansive to change something after it's built than to do it right the first place.
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